T Nation

Grow! and Grow Bars!

I recently saw where Skip LaCour didn’t bother with a lot of blenders/etc, and simply added some water to his supplemental protein and “voila!”; instant pudding! (He would then fold in other foods/nutrients). Not only is this another way to further stabilize insulin during the day, it’s convenient! Any of you guys with experience in eating your supplemental protein this way? (P.S.;pre-/during/ and post workout “Surge” is probably still best in shake form).

In terms of Protein Bars; any thoughts on the “best” place to incorporate them in our overall nutrition program? I’d like to start looking at them (especially with the advent of the “Grow” Bars) as more that just a “snack”.

Although I do consume protein bars on occasion (and will get the Grow Bars ASAP) I do my best to get as much real food as possible throughout the day. I don’t think you should incorporate them as anything more than an “on the go” protein fix if you can help it.

If I’m understanding your post correctly, I think John Berardi as well as Dr. Ken Kinakin have already discouraged this. Now I say “discouraged this” as that’s my inference from what they’ve presented in their articles. I believe the main point in both of their commentaries was that an adequate amount of water is needed for proper digestion. In fact, I think John even gave a ratio for determining the required amount.

With that said however, I would imagine one could always eat it as pudding and chug a liter of water along side. This is actually what I do when I eat my protein/yogurt/oatmeal meal.

Body: I knew that was true for “Surge”, but is it also true for other protein taken with meals? (I agree…if you’re taking in the water that you should, you should be chugging down a bit with your meals!)

SBET: Yea…I’m thinking the same thing…just wondering how other’s incorporate their bars…

Yeah, I’ve been doing it that way for years. The only liquid protein shakes I drink is either Surge or a “homemade” surge type shake I used to make and I only drink these Pre and/or Post WO. And to clairify the water issue…Berardi was only refering to your post WO shake or Surge as the purpose is to get it through your gut fast and into your blood so that the product works like it’s intended. It’s nothing to do with protein digestion or absorbtion, it’s strictly to thin it down so that absorbtion is rapid like you want post WO. At all other times, slow absorbtion is better. That is why casein is “the” protein of choice now - because it “gels” in the gut and digests slowly, releasing aminos for up to 7 hours. Instead of protein shakes or MRP’s or bars, I’ve always mixed up “puddings” with cottage cheese, protein powder, dry oatmeal, and artificial sweetner to taste. Thin it with a little “egg beaters” or a little milk (or even water). Can also add stuff like fat free yogurt and/or fruit. I make all kinds of “puddings” out of cottage cheese, protein powders, dry oatmeal (or sometimes Fiber One cereal) and any number of other ingrediants. There has been a number of threads about this recently and a current thread under Kyle Witter titled about oatmeal.

I think that where bodybuilder gets his references from is that article “bodybuilder heal thyself.” Check it out.

After reviewing the interview, I remembered reading it. However, I cann’t buy into everything he’s saying - all of it sounded like opinion and speculation - it wasn’t backed up by any studies or references or science. I remember reading about “chewing” your shake and even tried it for fun but seemed silly and annoying and I sure didn’t notice any benefit. And if it did make a difference, then we should be “chewing” all our drinks - how many of us has ever chewed their milk for instance? Not necessary, I believe. Although there are enzymes in salivia, most real digestive enzymes come from pancreas and liver. And in regards to not being able to properly digest a thicker shake, how the heck are we ever going to digest a steak or chicken breast as it doesn’t get any thicker than a chunk of steak. Your gut is designed to break every thing down and digest it. Eat a steak and puke later and even the steak will come up as being liquidfied by the gut. And that’s before it even gets in the intestines. I think he’s selling our digestive system short. True, some may have a degree of digestive problem, but most of us have a very effecient digestive system that can break down, liquify, and absorb just about anything. If any of this was true, than it wouldn’t make sense that current studies show the best protein utilization and LBM gains come from casein which “gels” or sets up and thickens in the gut so that digestion and absorbtion is slow and “time release”. Except post WO with Surge, it’s better for many reasons to have food digested and absorbed slowly rather than as quickly as possible.

Not to bust your balls bro but I think I’ll take the “opinion” of Dr. Ken Kinakin over your “opinion” on the matter. I’m sincerely sorry if that sounds condescending as I didn’t intend for it to be. He could certainly be wrong just as you could certainly be wrong. However,I would imagine it’s a debate of minutia. For a final thought, under practicle circumstances taking in excess water probably isn’t going to impair anything while taking in insufficient H2O MAY be a hinderence.

Thanks, bud!

You know…I think there is a BIG difference between 1)being "cutting edge, innovative and foward thinking (eg a lot of the “Testosterone” contributors) or 2) Coming up with stuff that makes you go “HHmmmmm”. I even think the interviewer of “Dr.Ken” was a little miffed and taken aback by some of his ideas. I agee…the “need” to chew liquid bordered on a little much, but hey…I’m open to learning new ideas! If it’s wierd…into the “out” file it goes! (Like I did a lot of “Dr. Ken’s” advice!)

So…what you said makes sense…current knowledge (NOT speculation or “herd-following”) suggest a couple of things that you brought out clearly:

  1. Insulin “stabilization and control” seems to be a key to not only physique enhancement, BUT overall health and longevity. (Chronically high insulin, brought about by the typical “Western/American” diet, is now being understood as being ONE factor contributing to a LOT of ills suffered later in life).This is done by nutrient partitioning, favoring lower GI carbs and favoring “slower release” proteins for the majority of the day WITH THE EXCEPTION OF POST WORKOUT.

    2)It is this POST WORKOUT period, when the muscles are “primed” for nutrient uptake, that we need to spike insulin, and shuttle nutrients quickly into our systems in the best vehicle we have; water.

    Makes sense, Bro…

I agree we are all entitled to our own opinions and that is both what the forum and America is all about. If I came across a little harsh, that’s just me, but I find it healthy to question unsubstantiated beliefs, just as you’re free to accept and believe whatever you desire. Actually, I feel flattered that apparently my opinion was up for acceptance as I thought this was merely a discussion. For a final thought, most athletes, especially body builders, are aware of the importance of hydration and make sure to consume adequate H2O.