T Nation

grouping exercises

when people but exercises together like chest with back, alot of times your do the chest rest do back rest than chest again and so forth, but when you do your chest and your doing a bench press movement at the bottom position your lats and biceps kick in if im not mistaken, now when you move to your back exercise and your doing a rowing movement that is using your lats and biceps as well, so doesn’t this defeat the purpose of resting a muscle inbetween exercises

Dude, when you hold the bar you are using your biceps muscles, and it’s not even “arms day”. If you do benches you are using your triceps. If you walk between exercises that is using your legs. Maybe you should do a workout of only concentration curls, leg extensions, triceps kickbacks… and roll between sets so you don’t overtax your calves.

i think i am making perfect since cause obviously your lats are involved alot in the bench otherwise you wouldn’t be hearing from dave tate the importance of doing rows, what about doing quads and hamstrings, first you do squats rest, then straight legged deadlifts rest, then back to squats and so forth, both these exercises involve the hamstrings the squats involve quads also but the hamstrings are a big part of the exercise so i dont see the point of pairing these together either since you are using hamstrings in both

I think the point he was trying to get across was that you can’t isolate completely. On chest/back day you might use your arms a bit. On legs day you might use your back a bit, etc. I think the important thing is that on chest/back day the focus is on the chest and back.

when grouping body parts (lets say chest and back) do you guys find it better to do all the chest exercises first and then all the back OR do you guys find it better to do 1 chest exercise then 1 back then another chest and then another back etc,etc,etc

just wondering

the benching lat overlap is also like in ass to calve squating your hams definately come into play. after squats many people do hamstring curls. double wammy on the hams, although 2 different ways of using them, rowin or chinning is a different way or using the lats as than in benching…

I definetly find it better to do 1 set chest 1 set back. I am at my strongest when i train like that. Im not everyone though. I also try to do exercises that are in (or close to) the same plain. Ie alternate bench press with rows and military press with chins. I dont alternate bench (horizontal push) with chin (vertical pull). I just dont get the same results.

benching then rowing is definitely different from squatting then hamstring curling. For one, the lat is a stabilizer in the bench and does not directly help with the lifting motion as the hamstrings do in every squat. I would never do squats then hamstring curl or deadlift. I use squatting to work my quads. I use deadlifts to hit my hamstrings. I think that if you were powerlifting type squat like the west siders, then you might do hamstring curls or reverse hypers since they consider the squat a hamstring, glute excercise. laters pk

Chris is on the right track. Alternating sets of antagonistic planes of motion (bench with rows) increases recovery between sets by relaxing the muscle that isn’t being worked at the time(relaxing the pushing muscles while you are rowing), allowing you to do more on later sets. And, on a side note, I find that my hamstrings are worked just as much, if not more than my quads in a FULL squat.

There is a huge difference between a powerlifting bench press such as Dave Tate does that does involve the lats to a large degree and a regular bodybuilding bench press that doesn’t. You won’t see powerlifters doing sets of rows in between sets for that reason so you are correct, but for bodybuilding it’s perfectly ok and you will usually be stronger training like this due.

anyone else have an opinion about training grouping >>> all chest then all back OR Chest back, chest back <<< is one actully better than the other or is it preference?

i prefer chest-back-chest-back so i can get a good workout in both muscles without being tired for the later one. Also it helps me stretch. laters pk

Different goals, different procedures. if ur trying to pack on as much muscle mass as humanly possible in a short period of time, then dont superset exercises, and rest 1-3 minutes and go low rep/heavy weight. Do you wanna trim down while keeping as much muscle as possible? Then u can superset exercises rest no more than 60-90 seconds, and go high reps.
When u superset chest and back u do one set of chest, follow immediately to the back set, and THEN rest no more than 90 seconds tops. U can also try following imediately to the chest set again, individual preference, and it depends on wether it works well for you or not.
Supersetting exercises is great for strength development as well as strengthen ur joints. I myself am supersetting back and chest. Ill do one set of barbell rows followed immediately by incline rows for my first superset. Ill rest 45 seconds and do it again.
It wont make u weaker - u simply wont gain as much mass as fast. u will be leaner and harder all around however. Absorb, incorporate and adapt.

U will definitely get better results by alternating antagonist body parts. im not excatly sure about alternating back and chest, which im presently doing, as bench presses involve the lats, and after doing bb rows or pullups ur lats are pretty fucked up. It does seem to work though, mind you.
However when it comes to bis/tris, I definitely alternate the. i can say 100% sure that i am able to go noticeably heavier on triceps after doing a set of bis. One of my supersets is standing bb curl supersetted with close grip press, and I love it cuz i can goo heavier on my tris. 
When it coes to quads and hamstrings though, daniel does have a point- suppersetting squats and stiffs is not the best idea since ur killing ur hams with two harcore exercises. 

pkagreek, in pl style bench, the lats sure do a lot more than stabalize. they are often told to be trained more when one is weak at the bottom since they are responsible for movement not just stabilization at the bottom rom

Guys, please. There is no way you can isolate a muscle unless you waste your whole workout doing stuff like leg extensions. When you do a biceps curl, you also bring your triceps into play. Surprised? Think about it. When you curl, does the bar fly up into your face on the first rep, smashing out all your teeth? WHY NOT? Because your triceps are in play as well. So the fact that your lats “stablize” your bench press is not worth worrying about. If you were that worried about it, it would make ANY compound movement impossible to schedule into your workouts.