T Nation

Grapefruit Assistance for Supps

I was reading Bowden’s book about grapefruit and ginger increasing the absorption of some medicines and to be careful.

I was just wondering if you could optimize your supplements by taking them with grapefruit juice?

Nice thought but it will not likely help.

Without getting into the science too much it does not work very well for most natural products.

Be very carfeull though with certain drugs, such as statins.

[quote]icecold wrote:
Nice thought but it will not likely help.

Without getting into the science too much it does not work very well for most natural products.

Be very carfeull though with certain drugs, such as statins.

[/quote]

Do you know why it would be different for more natural products?

[quote]icecold wrote:
Nice thought but it will not likely help.

Without getting into the science too much it does not work very well for most natural products.

Be very carfeull though with certain drugs, such as statins.

[/quote]

Can you give a bit more information? I have always read the impact of grapefruit on absorption as a POSITIVE thing. I would assume that, the more you can absorb - and, hence, the less dosage needed overall - the better off you are. I guess the danger is in not knowing how much more you can absorb (and how much more side effects might become apparent at the lower, more effective dosage).

OG,

You bought the Bowden book that was featured on here? I need to pick it up…they should come out with a second edition featuring your crepe variations.

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
icecold wrote:
Nice thought but it will not likely help.

Without getting into the science too much it does not work very well for most natural products.

Be very carfeull though with certain drugs, such as statins.

Can you give a bit more information? I have always read the impact of grapefruit on absorption as a POSITIVE thing. I would assume that, the more you can absorb - and, hence, the less dosage needed overall - the better off you are. I guess the danger is in not knowing how much more you can absorb (and how much more side effects might become apparent at the lower, more effective dosage).

OG,

You bought the Bowden book that was featured on here? I need to pick it up…they should come out with a second edition featuring your crepe variations.[/quote]

I do make some seriously good crepes.

I am thinking I am also going to buy Bowden’s book on food cures. I really liked the 150 Healthiest Foods.

I was also thinking that increasing absorption on certain supps would be a positive thing.

Luckily I am not currently on medication, but just some of the supps would be good.

I wonder if Grapefruit is in Superfood?

OG,
I don’t know the exact mechanism of interaction of grapefruit juice and other sunstances, but I know that GJ severely reduces effectiveness of birth control pills.I wouldn’t mix GJ with anything important.

[quote]skor wrote:
OG,
I don’t know the exact mechanism of interaction of grapefruit juice and other sunstances, but I know that GJ severely reduces effectiveness of birth control pills.I wouldn’t mix GJ with anything important.[/quote]

good point and thanks for the heads up on the birth control. I am not on those monsters right now thank goodness

so although it may increase absorption, you are saying it may decrease the effectiveness of certain supplements or medications?

well it was just a thought

I don’t know the specifics and I don’t know absorption of exactly what GJ increases. It definitely interacts with plenty of drugs: http://www.powernetdesign.com/grapefruit/ the basic mechanism being:

"Basic Mechanism of Action

Drugs that interact with grapefruit and/or grapefruit juice (GJ) undergo cytochrome p450 oxidative metabolism in the intestinal wall or liver. GJ contains various furanocoumarins which have been demonstrated to affect the cytochrome p450(CYP) system (especially at isoenzyme CYP3A4) by binding to the isoenzyme as a substrate and impairing first-pass metabolism, by direct inactivation or inhibition of the enzyme (mechanism-based inhibitors). The net effect on the CYP enzymes from this inhibition seems to be a selective down-regulation of CYP3A4 in the small intestine.26 For certain drugs which are known to be CYP 3A4 metabolized, less drug is metabolized prior to absorption, and greater amounts of these drugs reach the systemic circulation, leading to higher blood levels, and potentially to increases in therapeutic and/or toxic effects."

well it seems as if grapefruit juice is probably not a reliable stacker

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

well it seems as if grapefruit juice is probably not a reliable stacker [/quote]

OG,

yeah, i tried to stack Naringin (the active ingrediant of GJ) with various stimulants, and noticed nothing.

prolly something more to be aware of with meds, but not so much with supps…

Here: http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/grapefruit_juice

I don’t expect most of you to venture into that forum, but it explains the technical sides of it.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Here: http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/grapefruit_juice

I don’t expect most of you to venture into that forum, but it explains the technical sides of it.[/quote]

great post Mak! Thanks for the link

So GJ would increase - in most cases? - the amount of an active ingredient circulating in your system.

Sounds like it would stack VERY well with supps like resveratrol that need to be ‘overdosed’ to slow down their metabolism and therefore make them more effective.

I hope Bill Roberts can chime in on this and also stacking GJ with something like a test booster (natural stuff, like tribulus) and an anti-aromatase.

Cool thread, OG. I was thinking about GJ earlier.

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
So GJ would increase - in most cases? - the amount of an active ingredient circulating in your system.

Sounds like it would stack VERY well with supps like resveratrol that need to be ‘overdosed’ to slow down their metabolism and therefore make them more effective.

I hope Bill Roberts can chime in on this and also stacking GJ with something like a test booster (natural stuff, like tribulus) and an anti-aromatase.

Cool thread, OG. I was thinking about GJ earlier.[/quote]

I think I may take my RezV with some grapefruit and see if I notice any difference

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
icecold wrote:
Nice thought but it will not likely help.

Without getting into the science too much it does not work very well for most natural products.

Be very carfeull though with certain drugs, such as statins.

Do you know why it would be different for more natural products?

[/quote]

Grapefruit is a fairly potent inhibitor of CYP3A4, primarily in the gut. Other fruit juices have similar effects, though generally not as potent as grapefruit. 3A4 tends to oxidize hydrophobic compounds, particularly if they are large. Most supplements are natural products, and tend to be more on the hydrophilic side.

As such, there aren’t going to be many supplements for which 3A4 is on the critical metabolic path. The metabolic enzymes that seem to cause the most trouble around here are phase 2 conjugative enzymes responsible for glucuronidation and sulfation. These are the bane of resveratrol and curcumin users, for example. There are some compounds that inhibit these, e.g. quercetin for sulfation and piperine for glucuronidation.

wow so there seems to be both sides of the fence for this one. In one article it suggests it will help, in another it will hinder.

hhhmmmmmm I don’t want to go through the time it would take to figure this one out nor would I know how to quantify my results.

I did check and I see that grapefruit wasn’t used in Superfood.

I could’ve sworn this came up in an article but the search is giving me nothing. If I recall correctly, TC recommended grapefruit juice with Spike (which works wonderfully) and possibly some other supplements.

[quote]wfifer wrote:
I could’ve sworn this came up in an article but the search is giving me nothing. If I recall correctly, TC recommended grapefruit juice with Spike (which works wonderfully) and possibly some other supplements. [/quote]

so you use the grapefruit for your Spike huh?

I will give that a try. That kind of lends itself to the pro-grapefruit side of things.

I guess you would have the added benefit of C working on your cortisol

I mean I’d be careful with it. One tablet with grapefruit gives me more than two tablets alone but the effects don’t seem to last as long for whatever reason. I never thought of the vitamin C but that’s a good point.

Are you considering using actual, fresh fruit juice or an extract?

I would like to try this as well, since I am one of the few people that does not respond to most supplements.