So basically graininess is just being more vascular.
Separation.
Dennis Newman.
[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:
So basically graininess is just being more vascular. [/quote]
Some guys have the grainy look from varicose-like veins throughout the body. Curtis Leffler, John Meadows, Branch Warren, and Dave Palumbo come to mind.
Others have a different sort of grainy from insane leanness and I suppose, some odd predisposition for the fibers in the muscles showing. Dorian, Hamdulla Aykutlu, and Andreas Munzer fit this.
lol… grainy-ness and ‘thin skin’ is dependent on how much one is willing to suffer. anyone can get crazy shredded and ‘grainy’ if they are willing to put the work in… thing is, most aren’t willing
For the guys asking, Dorian Yates is basically the perfect combo of grainy AND seperation. Look at a guy like branch for an example of more graininess. Look at a guy like Cedric for an example of someone who has good seperation but lacks that graininess.
Matt Kroc is also damn grainy when in contest shape.
Either way, i agree that seperation should be rewarded ahead of graininess. At that grainy level of conditioning, everything is fully revealed. Your lines are about as deep as they are going to get and seperation will be most defined. If a guy is holding a little subcutaneous water or is a percentage point body fat higher than the real “grainy” guy, but has better separation and overall development, than he should be favored.
This is how i felt looking at Compton next to Branch. Branch had him on the conditioning but theres no doubt that Compton is the better overall physique in terms of bodybuilding.
Yates has always been the image that comes to me when I think Grainy condition. Forget the delineation between differing muscles (something a lot of guys today seem to be losing for whatever reason - that’s a whole 'nother thread topic), look at the quality of his appearance. The actual roughness of the muscles pushing through the skin. I’ve heard descriptions of appearing almost skin-less.
Some guys have it, others, despite never suffering from a lack of leanness (ie. Wheeler) just don’t. Now obviously we can go by assumption that all top level competitors have access to the same “stuff”, so that leaves my initial pondering: is it simply genetic? Can anyone think of an athlete who never appeared in such condition, and then one day, Pow! steps onstage looking like someone ran 'em over with sandpaper?
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Yates has always been the image that comes to me when I think Grainy condition. Forget the delineation between differing muscles (something a lot of guys today seem to be losing for whatever reason - that’s a whole 'nother thread topic), look at the quality of his appearance. The actual roughness of the muscles pushing through the skin. I’ve heard descriptions of appearing almost skin-less.
Some guys have it, others, despite never suffering from a lack of leanness (ie. Wheeler) just don’t. Now obviously we can go by assumption that all top level competitors have access to the same “stuff”, so that leaves my initial pondering: is it simply genetic? Can anyone think of an athlete who never appeared in such condition, and then one day, Pow! steps onstage looking like someone ran 'em over with sandpaper?
S[/quote]
flex was borderline flabby at the 1999 'O…just look at his glutes and hamstrings.
im sure they were torn between getting in peeled condition and trying to play the size game with Ronnie…Ronnie had it all. yeah he sacrificed size to get in shredded condition (at least in 1999, when IMO, he looked his best), but he had so much more size than anyone else, he could afford to lose some and still dwarf everyone else.
get too shredded, and you sacrifice size. keep your size, and you end up with less conditioning.
too many guys these days are playing the ‘size game’ card, and their condition is suffering as a result.
Flex had a tough bodybuilding career…having broken his neck and requiring a kidney transplant. he was probably never completely able to give it 100%, as we all know, diuretics wreak havoc on your kidneys.
I imagine Ronnie’s body was able to tolerate the insane amount of drugs these guys take better than those he competed against…but with that said, he still collapsed backstage at least once
I wonder if graininess has anything to due with tissue adhesions, particular towards the surface?
Freaky.
I am totally puzzled.
I’d say for a person to get it in a healthy fashion it’s genetic. Graininess appears to come from extensive vascularity and thin skin. If your not genetically predisposed to it, you would have to take a chance and do some unhealthy things to get it which is risky, not understood and likely to effect another quality you are training for.
I’ve heard Bro-science of people drinking beer or wine and going up on stage for that reason, but how many people truly understand and can time the effects of smoking, alcohol, and other random stuff out there. Long term smoking is known to thin the skin enough to help but unless you like weed do you want to risk doing it for a year to find out you only gained .5 lbs of muscle or lost conditioning?
I always felt the “grainy” (sandpaper look) bodybuilders were the ones who built their size by training with freaky weights with low-ish rep work or those with a powerlifting background who got lean enough. Arnold would have had that look if he’d gotten in the condition some of these guys get today. Then again it could also be related to muscle maturity…I see this in older lifters who’ve kept training all their lives (the ones who stay low body fat) even the ones who’re not carrying any real size lol.
Perhaps training heavy “speeds up” the process of muscle maturity as opposed to the “pumpers”?
[quote]Depression Boy wrote:
I always felt the “grainy” (sandpaper look) bodybuilders were the ones who built their size by training with freaky weights with low-ish rep work or those with a powerlifting background who got lean enough. Arnold would have had that look if he’d gotten in the condition some of these guys get today. Then again it could also be related to muscle maturity…I see this in older lifters who’ve kept training all their lives (the ones who stay low body fat) even the ones who’re not carrying any real size lol.
Perhaps training heavy “speeds up” the process of muscle maturity as opposed to the “pumpers”?[/quote]
IMO…you’re on the right track here.
[quote]Depression Boy wrote:
I always felt the “grainy” (sandpaper look) bodybuilders were the ones who built their size by training with freaky weights with low-ish rep work or those with a powerlifting background who got lean enough. Arnold would have had that look if he’d gotten in the condition some of these guys get today. Then again it could also be related to muscle maturity…I see this in older lifters who’ve kept training all their lives (the ones who stay low body fat) even the ones who’re not carrying any real size lol.
Perhaps training heavy “speeds up” the process of muscle maturity as opposed to the “pumpers”?[/quote]
nope.
like I said before, bodybuilders have to find a balance between conditioning, fullness, and size.
a lot of guys are too concerned about losing size and not being able to bring enough fullness to the stage to get into shredded ‘grainy’ conditioning. Cedric and Brandon Curry are good examples of this. really full round muscles, and subpar conditioning. I bet if they were to dial in the conditioning, they would risk a lot of their roundness… and with so much science and technique going into peaking for a contest… they have to be really careful and hit it just right.
remember Dennis Wolf at last year’s 'O? absolutely shredded, but really flat in prejudging. by the time finals had come around, he was far more full but not as insanely conditioned.
his determination to be the most shredded guy onstage cost him 3rd place…maybe even 2nd.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Depression Boy wrote:
I always felt the “grainy” (sandpaper look) bodybuilders were the ones who built their size by training with freaky weights with low-ish rep work or those with a powerlifting background who got lean enough. Arnold would have had that look if he’d gotten in the condition some of these guys get today. Then again it could also be related to muscle maturity…I see this in older lifters who’ve kept training all their lives (the ones who stay low body fat) even the ones who’re not carrying any real size lol.
Perhaps training heavy “speeds up” the process of muscle maturity as opposed to the “pumpers”?[/quote]
IMO…you’re on the right track here.
[/quote]
I’m not convinced by that. I would think that the vast majority of bodybuilders have done their share of heavy lifting
[quote]Yogi wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]Depression Boy wrote:
I always felt the “grainy” (sandpaper look) bodybuilders were the ones who built their size by training with freaky weights with low-ish rep work or those with a powerlifting background who got lean enough. Arnold would have had that look if he’d gotten in the condition some of these guys get today. Then again it could also be related to muscle maturity…I see this in older lifters who’ve kept training all their lives (the ones who stay low body fat) even the ones who’re not carrying any real size lol.
Perhaps training heavy “speeds up” the process of muscle maturity as opposed to the “pumpers”?[/quote]
IMO…you’re on the right track here.
[/quote]
I’m not convinced by that. I would think that the vast majority of bodybuilders have done their share of heavy lifting
[/quote]
Agree. I think a lot has to do with how thin your skin is. Usually the older you are, the more thin skin you have right?