T Nation

Grain Carbs vs Other Carbs


#1

Does anyone know the benefit between having carbs like oats/rice as your source VS fruit, veggies and possibly some other sugar-type sources (green tea drinks)?

I'm gonna do some research this weekend but I have to get some real work done now so I figured I'd toss this out here to see if anyone knows.


#2

I feel better by reducing my use of grain carbs.


#3

I don't know why you added green tea energy drinks, I'm pretty sure the sugar in those is added.
Fruits/veg vs Grains.
I believe more people have allergies to certain grains compared to fruits/veg.
Most grains have to be cooked in order to be eaten, unlike fruits/veg.
I think fruits/veg have a better micronutrient profile than a lot of grains, although I'm pretty sure grains have the B vitamins on lock.
Paul Chek on Grains
http://joshrubin.wordpress.com/2007/06/15/you-are-what-you-eat-grains-by-paul-chek/

This might be a useful source, I know they include nutrient profiles to show what each food is high in.
http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php


#4

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don't know why you added green tea energy drinks, I'm pretty sure the sugar in those is added./quote]
I didn't.


#5

The first problem I could see coming across is getting enough calories.

1 apple doesn't = 1 cup of oats in any fashion.


#6

Yeah, if I eat like 5 apples I feel like puking, probably too much acid.

I was referring to this

What I meant was, I don't get why you're including those in other carbs.


#7

I usually eat a variety or grains, fruits, veggies everyday.

My usual choices are oats, bananas, brocolli. On occasions i eat brown rice, better wheat bread


#8

Most of my carbs come in the form of milk or fruit juice. I eat some fruit and veges, but that doesn't add up to much. I have little to no grains and feel better. I have better focus, regularity, and more ummm desire so that's enough for me to ditch grains. However, I do have grains every once in a while. I'll get a pizza or something else just to pack in the cals once a week or so.


#9

Good post.

Waiting for Brick to come in and defend grains. "Yates and other bbers ate grains." Need another point since I stole yours hahaha

Also, where's WC7? Prolly tired of fighting with Brick.


#10

I guess some of the problems people have with grains, wheat in particular, but also rye, barley, and possibly oats, is that the protein in them called gluten, are poorly digested. And there are other substances in some grains that can cause issues ~

Blame the gluten?

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/blame-gluten.html


#11

Chek and Poliquin sitting under a tree... K_I_S_S_I_N_G :slight_smile:


#12

Is there any point that you were trying to make with what you wrote?


#13

I think it's pretty obvious, he fantasizes about muscular older men kissing in romantic contexts.

Daddy didn't love him.


#14

I know a lot of people have issues with grain digestion, possibly because of the gluten thing that Menthol noted. But personally I would never be able to get enough calories in without them. And some of them (like oats) are very slow digesting which helps a lot. Oats in the morning is power. Just can't imagine eating enough fruits and veggies to get an equal amount of carbs. You would probably have to chow nuts out of a bucket or something.

But for someone who is more sensitive to carbs or with a slower metabolism it might make sense to, or be beneficial to, make the change as there are theories behind grains being less healthy (hence the whole paleo diet idea).


#15

Try consuming a 50 percent carb diet (what most bodybuilders eat) with all those carbs coming from fruit and veggies for caloric intakes of 3,000+ calories!

Have fun eating 20 servings of fruits per day (eg, equivalent to 40 tablespoons of raisins, 20 medium sized apples, or 25 cups of strawberries, or whatever combination you prefer that would yield 300 grams of carbs for the day).


#16

Well, not only bodybuilders, but just about every darn competitive (Olympic and professional) athlete as well. Not to mention ordinary, physically active folks like myself who are in good health, and will remain in good health.

Maybe we can advise elite distance athletes who consume 5,000+ calories per day to not eat grains. That would be fun.

Can someone tell me how Mike Phelps should manage to consume 10,000 calories AND engage in VERY strenuous activity without grain intake or low carb intake?

Maybe Ben Johnson would've performed better on the track had he not eaten so many damn grain and sodium laden fast food cheeseburgers that he was reported to eat after practice.

I said it before and I'll say it again: I'm still wondering why there aren't people keeled over in pain in and in the parking lots of Italian restaurants considering that dairy and grains (what every friggin' good Italian dish has a shitload of) are supposed to be causing so many darn problems. Italians, especially American Italians, should be basketcases according to Koresh and other fearmongers' reasoning.

And so should everyone doing a 1,000+ gram carb day on their high carb day for KARBZ CYKLING.


#17

Also: Chek is NOT a healthcare practitioner!

Where his and Koresh's chauvinistic ramblings became the gospel is beyond me.

You want the facts on how we metabolize food: How about finding some damn solid research by gastroenterologists or other kinds of medical specialists who know what they're talking about.

Chek and Koresh are also not anthropologists or historians, so they can keep their AMATEUR writings to themselves and their followers.

Koresh has said loads of dumb shit - I mean LOADS!


#18

Oatmeals received a star in Jonny Bowden's 150 healthiest foods (and he considers himself a low-carb fellow) and he called it the Muhammad Ali of Foods. There's also Quinoa, which is actually a seed and not a grain, but is a great source of carbs and protein and received great praise from Bowden as well.

Another great source of carbs is ezekiel bread. The nutritional quality is much better than that of whole wheat.

It doesn't even stop there. Why not have some sweet potatoes? Fairly high carbs and awesome nutritional quality. Ditto on that with Beans.

I'm mentioning nutritional value because I don't believe anyone needs to consume something that doesn't benefit them from a health perspective. The only exception is peri-workout nutrition.

So, ultimately, you have some great sources: oats, ezekiel, sweet potatoes, quinoa, and beans. All those have fairly legitimate carb levels and should easily allow you to hit your levels. Couple that with all of them (minus ezekiel but he did have sprouts on the list) being in Bowden's 150 healthiest foods on earth and you can't lose.

Just my two cent, of course.


#19

I remember reading somewhere about people having differing levels of sensitivity to gluten and similar proteins in grains due to genetics and ethnic group. This is why some people are literaly alergic to gluten and can't eat grains at all while some people only have slight digestion problems from it and others can eat it everyday and feel fine. (this could explain why Italians are so adapt to eating grains)

Also, most of the problems being associated with grains would only be symptomatic in the long term. And even then it would not be certain that the grain consumption was a cause. I personally think that there is some small amount of logical reasoning behind why grains could be unhealthy but it's not to the point that it even matters really. It's kinda like saying oh well. There is acid in fruit juice and that's bad for my teeth so no more fruit juice for me.

So really, unless you are on a very low carb diet (maybe a cut) or you somehow manage to find a calorie dense grain free carb supplement... Don't even worry about it. Unless grains make you feel sick of course.

While we are on the topic, would gluten free grain food equivalents basically eliminate this whole theorized problem?


#20

a full blown grain allergy isn't so much an ethnic thing as bad luck.

It seems like a lot of sugar (and I'll lump fruit into the "sugar") category could have worse effects when consumed in excess. the fructose has to be metabolized by the liver, which can only work so quickly, and would do a worse job of refilling muscle glycogen after repeated activity... and if you're a rat in a scientific study, could lead to metabolic disorders.

flip side: fruit is good stuff, and it has all kinds of vitamins and fiber and water and tastes good and everything.

If I'm only consuming a little bit of carbs, I'll prioritize fruit. If I'm consuming a lot, I shift to startches.

Added sugar (table sugar and HFCS) should probably be kept in check (or chek?) just on general principle.