Govt. Blocking 9-11 Investigation

Alomost 2 years after the attacks on the World Trade Center, federal agencies are still dragging their feet about releasing documents to the panel assigned to investigate the attacks.

Speculation is that there is information that could be emabarrassing to the current administration.

A lot of unanswered questions, for example why did it take 90 minutes after reports of the first hijacking, to scramble the first jet fighters? Aren’t they supposed to be guarding our airspace? WTF is up with that? Even if ONE of the jets that hit the Twin Towers could have been intercepted, thousands of people could have been spared, probably. 90 minutes?

Also, 12 million dollars has been assigned to investigate, and it took over a year to get that going. On the other hand, when the Challenger shuttle blew up, 50 million was allocated, 90 minutes after it happened.

Where are our priorities?

Another article:

“This administration has opposed at every turn the creation of an independent commission to investigate the tragedy of Sept. 11th,” said Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., a presidential contender who co-sponsored legislation creating the panel. “By delaying its response to the commission’s information requests, the administration may now be hoping to run out the clock.”

and

“Hamilton was particularly critical of the Pentagon, saying the panel had not received responses to requests for information from the North American Aerospace Defense Command, which is responsible for patrolling skies over the United States.”

“McCain: Bush ‘Stonewalling’ 9/11 Commission”

(Newsmax is a right-wing website)

I don’t know about you, but when I saw the buildings go down my absolute first thought was that the buildings went down in a fashion similar to a controlled demolition. They just went down straight and the bottom went first, whats up with that? The planes crashed in the middle, it doesn’t make sense to me. I’m sure I missed some sort of explanation for this somewhere, but could someone shed some light on this its been buggin me for a while.

Airliner filled with fuel strikes tower.

Heat from impact and explosion of fuel tanks heats up steel beams which sustain tower.

This heat rises to a level which starts to melt the steel beams.

Steal beams can no longer support the floors which start to pancake one on top of the other until the tower is no longer standing.

This whole thing isn’t a pretty situation.

For one, as it sits with the jets protecting us, im assuming that their is blame to be had on that, and instead of doling it out (and most likely opening up a whole new can of worms) they just hide it. No surprise there, governments have been doing that for a long arse time.

On that other issue of how they fell, the real problem with it in many minds is the burning temp of the jet fuel compared to the melting point of the steel. Yes and the whole way they fell didn’t look good, neither did the reports of other bomb like sounds going off near that time.
Sure they explained that melting point thing in some technical yin yang, but the whole thing smacks of the “magic bullet syndrome” much like the jfk deal.

The real question is, who is being covered? Are they covering for reasons of incompetance, covering for other reasons of national security, or covering for future things we dont know about or ?

I think it’s one of those things that we probably really wont know the whole story till 50+ years from now, much like a lot of ww2 occurrences.

Lumpy, when are you going to give it up?Sorry man, there is no conspiracy. I know that’s what you want, to make George W. look bad. Do you really hate him that much or are you the type of person that looks at everything politically? All conservatives are bad and all liberals are good. Is that how it goes?

I also think it's funny that you provided a link to one of the most liberal news papers in the country, The New York Times.

Dustin (Lumpy's favorite conservative and Bush supporter)

RE: NYT
The NYT should APPEAR to have a liberal bias, because that should serve to bound thought & debate even more. If it appears to be so adversarial & extreme in their opposition to the government, how can the dissidents go beyond it? They’d sound totally crazy, which is the whole idea.

RE: WTC attack
All one has to do is compare what the gov’t did when Payne Stewart’s private jet went off course & crashed to what happened on 9/11/01. According to the FAA regulations, after a plane loses contact with its control tower, the air force is supposed to send jets to intercept (make eye contact) it, & that’s the usual thing, they don’t need the president’s permission or anything. In Payne Stewart’s case, it took 29mins for the fighter jets . On 9/11/01, fighter jets got scrambled 90 mins AFTER the 1st tower got hit & NEVER intercepted any of the jets. Explanation please? Here’s an excellent website with a huge compilation of news articles + a timeline:

RE: “conspiracy”
That phrase is used to deter & intimidate anyone who attempts an analysis of something & that’s precisely the sense in which the flagwavers are using it. Therefore anyone who asks questions about 9/11 is a “conspiracy theorist.”

There would be almost zero talk about conspiracy if the government was not dragging their feet on this.

Not a single person in a position of authority has been fired or reprimanded in regards to 9-11. Do you want to tell me that the whole event wasn’t a series of major fuckups by the people who are supposed to be protecting us?

Just a few competent people sprinkled here or there might have prevented some deaths.

The deadline for the investigation is the 2004 election. Is the Bush administration wasting time on purpose, or is it a coincidence?

A whole bunch of other stupid stuff happened. A lot of the steel from the towers was immediately sold to China, and was recycled. WTF? That was evidence! The local mafia pilfered some steel, and resold it.

Supposedly the towers were built to withstand a jet airplane. Some people say that the “pancake” explanation doesn’t hold water. Firefighters on the scene did report hearing a series of what sounded like explosions. One of the jets did not hit the tower squarely in the center, and a lot of the fuel burned up in a fireball outside the building. This was the 2nd tower to be hit, but the first tower to fall.

Many unanswered questions.

When you’re surrounded by buildings, and something creates a very, very loud noise, then it will sound like ‘multiple explosions,’ Because the sound will bounce off of different buildings (and different materials), and will not return to the observer at the exact same time. We call this an ‘echo.’ Because of material differences, natural changes in the sound, etc, yes, it would probably sound like different bombs going off, and the sounds would seem to be coming from different directions. Now, if they were to say that 30 seconds later it sounded like there were bombs, that would be different.

Regarding the scrambling of fighters, when was the last time a hijacked jetliner was used as a bomb? In the past decades, when a plane was hijacked, it was flown somewhere, landed, then demands were made by the hijackers.

Why would fighter jets be immediately scrambled?

THe government’s first priority is to save the passengers’ lives, not shoot them down even before having contact with the hijackers.

The government doesn’t work like a small business of 5 people. Things take time to be processed and reacted to. EVen if fighters were supposed to be scrambled, it’s definately not Bush’s fault they weren’t. His administration? Maybe. More than likely, they didn’t know anything more than the average American did in the first moments of the event. I’m sure plenty of blame can be passed around, but let’s not blame everything on Bush, for once.

I feel some of you are a little to ready to say things are coverups and conspiracies, but I’m glad there are people in this country like that. Balance is key.

Kevin

Ok, I’ll join in. More fun.

The agencies are dragging their feet because they fucked up. This has less to do with the administration then with the bureaucracy created by a big government.

As far as the buildings going down, they went from the top down, not from the bottom. I watched it hundreds of times. The History Channel had a special describing exactly why they failed and collapsed. diesel23 was correct. One floor would fail and collapse upon the next floor. The sudden weight of falling was too much for the next floor. Like dominos each floor failed one after another. This is why it fell in a seemingly “controlled” manner. I do believe that the building was designed with the idea that it had to come down sometime, and they would not want it to fall out of control.

The jets were flying under the radar, a technique often used by all military. Nobody knew where they were or why, so ultimately confusion occurred, and then a delay of the government being contacted as they tried to resolve the problem not realizing the situation. Maybe they were supposed to inform the government asap, but you know how people work. They get lazy, stupid, and might try to figure things out on their own afraid they might get in trouble. It happens.

And as far as dragging their feet, this is the first time I have ever heard of the government not doing things instantly. I never wait in line to get my license, or to register my car. When I call the government to ask a question, I am not transferred, and my questions are always answered immediately. Good thing red tape does not exist.

To address “explosions” and the collapse:

I was at the University of Washington when the under-construction stadium collapsed. In fact, just the afternoon before it fell, I looked at it and tolld my (then) girlfriend that it didn’t look stable. When it collapsed, it sounded like a locomotive. But just before it collapsed, large rivets were being shot out of it like bullets, with accompanying rifle sounds. And that was just a few girders. Take something the size of the Twin Towers, similar failure, and it’s gonna sound like major explosions.

Also, as to the issue of the heat and collapse, remember that the towers wre built with several vertical shafts running through the building. Elevator shafts, ventilation shafts. Pour burning fuel down these, and you have the recipe for heating the entire column. And you don’t have to heat it up to the melting point, just into the plastic range. This would make it unstable enough to collapse.

kevin46 said: “Why would fighter jets be immediately scrambled?”
Because that’s the standard operating procedure in the FAA manual. Flight control is supposed to try to contact the plane when it goes off course. If there’s no contact, fighter jets are supposed to be scrambled to intercept (that means get visual, not shoot it down). The planes even had their transponders turned off & somehow that didn’t arouse enough suspicion to scramble fighter jets.

Lumpy said:“Not a single person in a position of authority has been fired or reprimanded in regards to 9-11.”
That’s right, usually when people are incompetent, heads roll. Nobody’s been reprimanded at all for the intelligence ‘failure.’

When ANY crime occurs (not just 9/11), look at who benefits. See who benefits, then it’s reasonable to ask those who benefit from the crime if they had a role, no matter how small, in committing the crime. So who has benefitted from the 9/11 attack? The US weapons industry, the Bush administration & the Pentagon.

I listened to Bill O’Reilly’s radio show earlier and this was a topic that he covered. He had a former CIA officer on there that said there was no way of knowing that Sept. 11 was going to happen. I can’t remember the guys name but according to intelligence at the time Al Queda was not seen as a big risk to national security.

O'Reilly mentioned when he was writing his new book he talked to Billy Boy. Clinton said that Al Queda was not seen as a security risk when he was in office. Surprisingly, the CIA officer agreed with that assessment.

So Lumpy, I think the blame should not be directed only at President Bush, but also at your favorite liberal, Slick Willy.

Dustin

One of the agencies had gotten wind of a plan to hijack airplanes and ram them into strategic targets, only a few months before the attacks. One of the things this investigation will cover is “who knew, and when did they know it”.

Vice president Dick Cheney personally called certain members of Congress and asked them not to launch congressional hearings.

The explanation given here about the sound of explosions seems plausible to me.

As far as “red tape” can you explain why 90 minutes after the Challenger blew up, 50 million was allocated and an investigation began, while only 12 million has been allocated to investigate 9-11, and it took over a year to get started? How does “red tape” explain that?

Absolutely hilarious to blame 9-11 on President Clinton. LOL!!!