T Nation

Government Motors


#1

Well, as the owner of a GM product, I will now have to sell it (maybe give it away) as a matter of principle.

Government Motors indeed!

Where did common sense go in this nation?

Let the silly company go into bankruptcy and break it apart into its individual companies and let free people invest in it and watch the American auto industry grow again.

I am sick and tired of us allowing the government to bail out industries that it benefits from and which it helped to create.

Basic business principle - bad performance ='s going bankrupt and letting your competition dance on your grave!

This "too big to fail" crap is just that . . .grade A 100% BS!


#2

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Well, as the owner of a GM product, I will now have to sell it (maybe give it away) as a matter of principle.

Government Motors indeed!

Where did common sense go in this nation?

Let the silly company go into bankruptcy and break it apart into its individual companies and let free people invest in it and watch the American auto industry grow again.

I am sick and tired of us allowing the government to bail out industries that it benefits from and which it helped to create.

Basic business principle - bad performance ='s going bankrupt and letting your competition dance on your grave!

This “too big to fail” crap is just that . . .grade A 100% BS![/quote]

But this has the positive benefit of teaching large companies that they can be irresponsible, and uncompetitive and there will always be a safety net when they screw up.

Wait…


#3
  • The bailout for GM totals 27 billions. Half of that is loan that should be repaid. -> American taxpayers are therefore out 13.5 billions.

  • Cost of war in Iraq since 2003 (according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office): 1,000 billions by the end of the year. -> American taxpayers are out 1,000 billions.

Diagnosis: You’re exhibiting signs of psychopathy.


#4

[quote]lixy wrote:

  • The bailout for GM totals 27 billions. Half of that is loan that should be repaid. -> American taxpayers are therefore out 13.5 billions.

  • Cost of war in Iraq since 2003 (according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office): 1,000 billions by the end of the year. -> American taxpayers are out 1,000 billions.

Diagnosis: You’re exhibiting signs of psychopathy.[/quote]

What?


#5

[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:

  • The bailout for GM totals 27 billions. Half of that is loan that should be repaid. -> American taxpayers are therefore out 13.5 billions.

  • Cost of war in Iraq since 2003 (according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office): 1,000 billions by the end of the year. -> American taxpayers are out 1,000 billions.

Diagnosis: You’re exhibiting signs of psychopathy.

What?[/quote]

I think he is saying because our government has wasted money before, we shouldn’t be upset by this? Oh, or maybe that we don’t address the war in every thread we’re dumb?

Lixy, when you look at an ink blot, do you see the Iraq war?


#6

[quote]lixy wrote:

  • The bailout for GM totals 27 billions. Half of that is loan that should be repaid. -> American taxpayers are therefore out 13.5 billions.

  • Cost of war in Iraq since 2003 (according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office): 1,000 billions by the end of the year. -> American taxpayers are out 1,000 billions.

Diagnosis: You’re exhibiting signs of psychopathy.[/quote]

Am I really? Was it the armadillo story or the one in Havana with Fidel? Truth be told, those were minor incidences compared with my vacation in Trinidad . . . who knew you could do that with jumper cables, a rubber ducky, some motor oil and 3 rolls of aluminum foil? Though I did think the nitrous was a bit excessive, she really liked it, so.

OOOOOH, you’re placing a financial value on the freedom of individuals. Great, so there is a limit in your mind to the financial cost of freedom. OK - kewl for you. In real terms the $800 billion or so the war has cost divided by the current population of Iraq comes in at around $35,000 per person. So if their freedom costs us $34,000 - you’re ok with that, but once we crossed that $34,999 limit - you’re done! Or am I taking you too literal when you were going for some ethereal point of contextual idiocy?

Are you honestly trying to compare my outrage at creeping socialism within my own country with my support for freeing the people of Iraq from a dictator and putting a just end to a war he started?

I may be psychopathic (taking meds for it- bourbon mostly) - but you are flat out bonkers . . . . and I know Bonkers! He was a great little bunny . . . .


#7

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:

  • The bailout for GM totals 27 billions. Half of that is loan that should be repaid. -> American taxpayers are therefore out 13.5 billions.

  • Cost of war in Iraq since 2003 (according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office): 1,000 billions by the end of the year. -> American taxpayers are out 1,000 billions.

Diagnosis: You’re exhibiting signs of psychopathy.

What?

I think he is saying because our government has wasted money before, we shouldn’t be upset by this? Oh, or maybe that we don’t address the war in every thread we’re dumb?

Lixy, when you look at an ink blot, do you see the Iraq war?[/quote]

Good point . . .

Lixy what do you see here?

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#8

[quote]lixy wrote:

  • The bailout for GM totals 27 billions. Half of that is loan that should be repaid. -> American taxpayers are therefore out 13.5 billions.

  • Cost of war in Iraq since 2003 (according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office): 1,000 billions by the end of the year. -> American taxpayers are out 1,000 billions.

Diagnosis: You’re exhibiting signs of psychopathy.[/quote]

Selective fiscal insanity is probably just highly neurotic.


#9

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:

  • The bailout for GM totals 27 billions. Half of that is loan that should be repaid. -> American taxpayers are therefore out 13.5 billions.

  • Cost of war in Iraq since 2003 (according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office): 1,000 billions by the end of the year. -> American taxpayers are out 1,000 billions.

Diagnosis: You’re exhibiting signs of psychopathy.

What?

I think he is saying because our government has wasted money before, we shouldn’t be upset by this? Oh, or maybe that we don’t address the war in every thread we’re dumb?

Lixy, when you look at an ink blot, do you see the Iraq war?[/quote]

He is saying that the cost of this bailout is next to nonexistent.

You have bigger fish to fry.


#10

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think he is saying because our government has wasted money before, we shouldn’t be upset by this? [/quote]

IrishSteel is an ardent apologist of the invasion of Iraq. He thinks all the money spent on bombing Iraq (killing and maiming innocents) was well spent.

I’m just putting things in perspective.


#11

[quote]orion wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:

  • The bailout for GM totals 27 billions. Half of that is loan that should be repaid. -> American taxpayers are therefore out 13.5 billions.

  • Cost of war in Iraq since 2003 (according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office): 1,000 billions by the end of the year. -> American taxpayers are out 1,000 billions.

Diagnosis: You’re exhibiting signs of psychopathy.

What?

I think he is saying because our government has wasted money before, we shouldn’t be upset by this? Oh, or maybe that we don’t address the war in every thread we’re dumb?

Lixy, when you look at an ink blot, do you see the Iraq war?

He is saying that the cost of this bailout is next to nonexistent.

You have bigger fish to fry.

[/quote]

its not the cost - its the principal - - - in both cases.


#12

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
orion wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:

  • The bailout for GM totals 27 billions. Half of that is loan that should be repaid. -> American taxpayers are therefore out 13.5 billions.

  • Cost of war in Iraq since 2003 (according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office): 1,000 billions by the end of the year. -> American taxpayers are out 1,000 billions.

Diagnosis: You’re exhibiting signs of psychopathy.

What?

I think he is saying because our government has wasted money before, we shouldn’t be upset by this? Oh, or maybe that we don’t address the war in every thread we’re dumb?

Lixy, when you look at an ink blot, do you see the Iraq war?

He is saying that the cost of this bailout is next to nonexistent.

You have bigger fish to fry.

its not the cost - its the principal - - - in both cases.[/quote]

The first rule of economics is scarcity, the first rule of politics is to pretend that it does not exist.

Fascism already was part of American politics before the bailout, so there is no principle left to defend and if you have principles that demand that you spend 1 trillion dollars for nothing instead of American infrastructure I would urge you to revisit them.


#13

[quote]lixy wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
I think he is saying because our government has wasted money before, we shouldn’t be upset by this?

IrishSteel is an ardent apologist of the invasion of Iraq. He thinks all the money spent on bombing Iraq (killing and maiming innocents) was well spent.

I’m just putting things in perspective. [/quote]

Yep - that was our goal from day one- how many innocent people can we bomb into oblivion today. Technically, that has always been the goal o the US military -kill civilians. It’s why we lock up our military on bases when they are in the US, just in case they forget they are home and go on raging homicidal rampages across our civilized nation.

We’re just not happy in the good ol USA unless we can see innocent corpses splashed across our morning news. Yep, nothing says good morning America like a few hundred schoolchildren blown off the map. Makes me smile just thinking about it.

What kind of an imbecile are you, Lixy?

Is this what passes for intellectual debate in Sweden these days?

And to think Vikings ever came from your land - what’s someone like you doing a T-Nation site . . . (yes, those are thinly veiled attacks on your masculinity- not to change the debate direction - but merely to entertain myself before we get back on topic)

Yep, we American’s love bombing civilians as much as the swedes like selling their women into the muslim sex slavery rings . . . .


#14

[quote]lixy wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
I think he is saying because our government has wasted money before, we shouldn’t be upset by this?

IrishSteel is an ardent apologist of the invasion of Iraq. He thinks all the money spent on bombing Iraq (killing and maiming innocents) was well spent.

I’m just putting things in perspective. [/quote]

I’m aware I was being sarcastic. I was attempting to point out your utter fascination with certain issues. And that creeping socialism and imperialism together are too big for this thread. That and opinions on one don’t dictate opinions on the other, with the only real connection being big bad evil america. (that last part was pretty sarcastic too)


#15

[quote]orion wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
orion wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:

The first rule of economics is scarcity, the first rule of politics is to pretend that it does not exist.

Fascism already was part of American politics before the bailout, so there is no principle left to defend and if you have principles that demand that you spend 1 trillion dollars for nothing instead of American infrastructure I would urge you to revisit them.

[/quote]

But you make my point for me - the movement towards the left in this country (which is a move towards fascism, socialism, tyranny, etc) is something that concerns me greatly as is the right of a people to determine their own future free from the tyrannical rule of a minority party such as the Baathists.

In both cases, principles which I hold dear are what is at stake.

If you want to talk about principles of infrastructure construction that involved a lot more than just bailing out auto industries. Feel free to start that thread anytime.


#16

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
lixy wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:

I’m aware I was being sarcastic. I was attempting to point out your utter fascination with certain issues. And that creeping socialism and imperialism together are too big for this thread. That and opinions on one don’t dictate opinions on the other, with the only real connection being big bad evil america. (that last part was pretty sarcastic too)[/quote]

Imperialism - that wonderful catch-all word so loved by socialists everywhere.

Let’s see where the Empire of America’s borders are today . . . .why they are exactly where they have been for decades- no new territories, no new slaves . . .ahhh dang it- we suck at this imperialist thing . . . we gave back Iraq, Germany, Philippines, Cuba, Morocco, Italy, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Japan, Tunisia, Grenada, and so on. What morons we are - how can we be good imperialists if we don’t keep control of the territories we conquer?

What a bunch of drivel - have you nothing more than regurgitated agi-prop recycled over and over again by leftists around the world . . . really? that’s it - self-congratulatory speeches on the evils of the American Empire . . . .how truly truly pathetic.


#17

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
lixy wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:

I’m aware I was being sarcastic. I was attempting to point out your utter fascination with certain issues. And that creeping socialism and imperialism together are too big for this thread. That and opinions on one don’t dictate opinions on the other, with the only real connection being big bad evil america. (that last part was pretty sarcastic too)

Imperialism - that wonderful catch-all word so loved by socialists everywhere.

Let’s see where the Empire of America’s borders are today . . . .why they are exactly where they have been for decades- no new territories, no new slaves . . .ahhh dang it- we suck at this imperialist thing . . . we gave back Iraq, Germany, Philippines, Cuba, Morocco, Italy, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Japan, Tunisia, Grenada, and so on. What morons we are - how can we be good imperialists if we don’t keep control of the territories we conquer?

What a bunch of drivel - have you nothing more than regurgitated agi-prop recycled over and over again by leftists around the world . . . really? that’s it - self-congratulatory speeches on the evils of the American Empire . . . .how truly truly pathetic.

[/quote]

AGH! really man? I was using Lixy’s vocabulary and accusations on the subject. I thought the sarcastic big bad evil america at the end of that would paint the message that way. Damn my lack of communication skills.


#18

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

Am I really? Was it the armadillo story or the one in Havana with Fidel? Truth be told, those were minor incidences compared with my vacation in Trinidad . . . who knew you could do that with jumper cables, a rubber ducky, some motor oil and 3 rolls of aluminum foil? Though I did think the nitrous was a bit excessive, she really liked it, so.
[/quote]

lol.
you’re just too good at interjecting humor into your rebuttals!

I myself am not a fan of paying taxes at all, and especially when the money that I have spent my labor and time to earn is used for things that are against my beliefs.

bailouts are some serious bullshit.
is america a capitalist society or not? (mixed feelings about capitalism)
if GM falls, the market will fill the void with something else, isn’t that how it is supposed to work?

I haven’t been hanging out in PWI that much, but I think Lixy is from Morocco doing graduate work in Sweden, fwiw.
:slight_smile:


#19

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
lixy wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:

AGH! really man? I was using Lixy’s vocabulary and accusations on the subject. I thought the sarcastic big bad evil america at the end of that would paint the message that way. Damn my lack of communication skills.[/quote]

Sorry - the voices in my head drowned out the little voice telling me you were just being sarcastic. Who knew there were 48 different ways to sing the Greek national anthem? Although I think eddie was just making it up as he went along. . .


#20

[quote]miroku333 wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:

Am I really? Was it the armadillo story or the one in Havana with Fidel? Truth be told, those were minor incidences compared with my vacation in Trinidad . . . who knew you could do that with jumper cables, a rubber ducky, some motor oil and 3 rolls of aluminum foil? Though I did think the nitrous was a bit excessive, she really liked it, so.

lol.
you’re just too good at interjecting humor into your rebuttals!

I myself am not a fan of paying taxes at all, and especially when the money that I have spent my labor and time to earn is used for things that are against my beliefs.

bailouts are some serious bullshit.
is america a capitalist society or not? (mixed feelings about capitalism)
if GM falls, the market will fill the void with something else, isn’t that how it is supposed to work?

I haven’t been hanging out in PWI that much, but I think Lixy is from Morocco doing graduate work in Sweden, fwiw.
:)[/quote]

well, now that changes everything - makes much more sense now. Couldn’t imagine a non-warrior viking - was really starting to screw with my head - and that’s a scary thing these days.

Yeah, I agree on the taxes and their being spent for the wrong things. But that’s a whole different thread there.

I wish they would just leave the market alone and let it work!

Livy - I kiss you on the cheek as a sign of true friendship (I believe the custom still holds in Morocco?). Peace and may we verbally joust with vigor and much respect!