T Nation

Got Wood?

I cannot get my endo to request comprehensive labs and in Western Canada they don’t have the Sensitive Assay test for E2. I have had gyno issues in the past (non steroid user) and have had surgery to remove it. I am obviously concerned about it now that I am trying to raise my Test levels. I have been monitoring my E2 by how I feel and the state of my gyno. My endo will not prescribe an AI and I am looking at other options re: doctors. I went from 7.5grs of Androgel to 10grms about three months ago. My test levels after I went to max dose 10grms did not change.

Testosterone - 10.2 (8.4 - 28.7) nmol/L.

Obviously my test is still quite low and I am moving to shots when my gel is done. The one difference I noticed when I went to 10grms is that my sex drive went through the roof. I don’t remember it ever being like this even during puberty. Without getting too graphic my erections have also gotten much harder. I am having crazy dreams and spend much of the day thinking about sex.

With that being said does my increased libido and erections indicate proper E2 levels?

Hi Hook24, I was looking through the posts and came across this one of yours, we just communicated on the other entry “Did I overdo the Adex”. Remember I’m in Ontario.

I took Androgel for a month and then switched over to injections, which I’ve been on almost 3 months now. I never felt anything on the Androgel, but maybe I was a bit too eager for results. Might have been different if I stayed on another month; despite it’s disadvantages (I didn’t like it because I exercise around mid - morning and then couldn’t have a shower right away) I understand you feel most sexual when you’re on it as opposed to injections.

Testosterone, and how much we need, is a strange thing. A month after I started my injections (standard 100 mg per week) my total t was 33, bioavailable test also exceeded the range. Yet I never to this day had a raging libido (or hard-on for that matter). My E also went really high (203 in Canadian numbers, regular female E test, you know what I mean)so that I thought the E was holding me back. I convinced my doctor to give me some Adex, and you know the rest of the story (although I feel a little less joint soreness today). Reduced E hasn’t made much of a difference in sex. Like I said on my other post, a bit of levitra and it’s OK.

I’m a little envious of your heightened sexual “awareness”. I can’t imagine that your E would be out of bounds if you’re feeling like that. Have you found out anything about us Canadians getting a more accurate E test? I remember reading another post where someone (who seemed to be a position of knowing) suggested that the regular test is ususally fairly close to the high sensitive test, if anything being from 5 to 20% more than what it would be for men in the high sensitive test. You mentioned you’re taking the Adex; what’s your numbers looking like?

Read this thread as Killergoalie advises me how to get my E levels checked by using a difference reference range. I am working on compiling my “Case” as I created a couple threads. I still do not have my old lab reports and am working on getting all my results even pre TRT. In this thread I report that my T levels were still low but that in fact wasn’t the case. My Endo read a previous lab and advised me later that I was much higher. When I moved from 7.5 to 10 grams my T levels did go to 28 which I’m sure contributed to my Gyno. In hindsite the gyno was already forming at 7.5 even when my levels were quite low. I have a follow up in a month and a half and will hopefully get all my labs then.

With T-gels:

  • T–>E2 in the skin can be large, bad for libido
  • T–>DHT can be high, great for libido
  • gels cover large skin areas, magnifying the above effects
  • strong T creams reduce T–>E2 and T–>DHT in the skin, lower skin areas
  • injections reduce DHT and E2, some will feel less libido

The way that you feel now, your E2 must be decent. But some effects of E2 can take a while to develop.

A major increase in T can create a huge libido effect. Often this is transient and a once in a life time event. So that needs to be kept in mind.

I have experienced libido falling off when switching from Androgel to T-cyp Injection.
My T is 900ish 7 days after a 200mg injection, and my E2 ranges 23-29. I use 25mg aromasin
split into two 12.5mg dosage 1 monday 1 thurday. Stats 6’3" 229 age 44.

I have played with dosages and intervals of injection splitting my dose from 1x all the way to 7x per week.
I noticed that my libido was stronger, and I had more penile sensitivity with 1 larger shot per week.
The feeling tails off after a few days, but at least I have it for a good three days per week.
With the more frequent injections my libido was there, but it was like meh.

My quest for more consistent libido led to me to try a couple other compounds along with my T:
MASTERON marginal results, tried the Enth and Prop versions.
PROVIRON great results, although its pill form, and I think long term usage could potentially cause liver damage due to its methylation.

The thing I have found to work best is Testosterone Propionate. I believe that its short acting ester delivers a much faster punch and amount of T to your system causing T–>DHT and E2.
The part I like is that I can take it every other day at 50mg per injection and I get all the desired results I am after…AND I don’t have to just take that one huge injection of T-cyp per week and then tail off by thursday.

PKNY: Masteron should have strong effects as with proviron. Note that these need to be additional to T, not in place of. You may need less AI with these. Liver issues are likely. Perhaps better if you take these for short periods of time. Perhaps for effect during your wife/GF second week of her cycle.

Hi KS, was hoping you would chime in.

I read some older threads that you commented on Masteron and Libido.
When I tried Mast P, I added it to my regular T dosage, and I had read that it
can act as a mild AI. For me, it has somewhat of an opposite effect. I actually needed
a little more AI. I felt a little moody, held a little more water and had somewhat
of a delayed orgasm…all signs of higher E2 for me.

Researching more I found a lot of men reporting that Masteron can lower SHBG.
Bro Science aside, in my case, I think it may be true. I loaded 200mg T/enth and either 50mg Mast p
or 100mg Mast E, and then split the dose in half over the week. 1/2 mon and 1/2 thurs.
My theory (and this is just me) is that the Mast lowered my SHBG and made more of the T Enth
available to my system which then aromitized to DHT and E2, thus the need for slightly more
AI, I felt like the heightened E2 may have cancelled some of the beneficial effect of the DHT I
was looking for.

Proviron was easier to control the effect as it came in 25mg pills. Pop 1 in the morning and my
wife was very happy that night. Have to say, I felt better all day as well, feelings of well being,
high libido and energy. With Masteron, its more hit or miss with the timing of the feelings due to
the subjective way that your body uses the compounds you put into it via injection.

Test Prop has been a very good balance of the safety of just plain old Testosterone, and the higher libido
effects of the aforementioned substances. I’d recommended to anyone that suffers from lower libido while
on test (with balanced E2 etc) to give Test Prop at try.