Got T Pellets Today

The procedure is not that bad, but shots/gels are way more convenient. The doc and his people swore that the pellets would be at least 4 times as good as either of them, in terms of subjective experience.

Anyway, lay down with pants just below butt. The nurse cleans the spot 5 times, gives you a local, then the doc inserts a tiny canula (like a straw). He put 4 pellets just under the skin, and the procedure was painless. He then put a tight wrap on me and told me to lie still for 5 minutes. Done. (Hope this wasn’t TM info.)

I think I’ll kind of keep a sort of journal of this thread with a weekly report of how I feel, subjectively. Get a blood draw in one month.

where exactly and how many/dose did they implant?

How often do you have to go back?

Why did you go this route?

This is the first post I’ve seen regarding the implants.

[quote]saveski wrote:
where exactly and how many/dose did they implant?

How often do you have to go back?

Why did you go this route?

This is the first post I’ve seen regarding the implants. [/quote]

I had 4 pellets, about the size of a rice grain, implanted by my left hip.

I convert T to E pretty easily. When the gel hits hair, it produces enzymes that convert, so my E was high.

This way was like injecting, but its once every 3 months, instead of twice per week.

What’s the equivalent amount of test that you would otherwise be injecting?

Did you not like injecting?

So the HPTA still gets shutdown, testes atrophy and may go into a state of organ failure. Pregnenolone production drops, which undermines DHEA levels and thus cortisol levels might drop. Any state of adrenal fatigue would get worse.

So one still needs to inject hCG. So one is still injecting. I do not think that pellets will work as well as EOD T injections. And the levels from the pellets drop over time until new pellets are inserted.

One can inject T EOD at the same time as EOD hCG injections.

Self injecting remains the least cost option.

When one does lab work with pellets… when does one do the labs after the pellets are inserted? What does that number mean?

If T levels fall over time, then one’s adex dose will never be right in terms of T relative competitive action.

I second KSman here. Given what we know today balancing T and E would be very difficult with pellets. I think these are ancient history. Keep us posted though.

[quote]KSman wrote:
So the HPTA still gets shutdown, testes atrophy and may go into a state of organ failure. Pregnenolone production drops, which undermines DHEA levels and thus cortisol levels might drop. Any state of adrenal fatigue would get worse.

So one still needs to inject hCG. So one is still injecting. I do not think that pellets will work as well as EOD T injections. And the levels from the pellets drop over time until new pellets are inserted.

One can inject T EOD at the same time as EOD hCG injections.

Self injecting remains the least cost option.

When one does lab work with pellets… when does one do the labs after the pellets are inserted? What does that number mean?

If T levels fall over time, then one’s adex dose will never be right in terms of T relative competitive action.[/quote]

A constant dose of around 3 mg of test per day is constantly released into the body – no ups and downs, and it more mimics how we’d normal get T.

Why would the injections EOD avoid all the trouble you mention, but the pellets won’t? The pellets seem to have the advantages of the gels w/o their drawbacks.

The only drawback top guys in the field say are that, if your level is too high, the pellets would have to be surgically removed. F that, I want high! :wink:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
KSman wrote:
So the HPTA still gets shutdown, testes atrophy and may go into a state of organ failure. Pregnenolone production drops, which undermines DHEA levels and thus cortisol levels might drop. Any state of adrenal fatigue would get worse.

So one still needs to inject hCG. So one is still injecting. I do not think that pellets will work as well as EOD T injections. And the levels from the pellets drop over time until new pellets are inserted.

One can inject T EOD at the same time as EOD hCG injections.

Self injecting remains the least cost option.

When one does lab work with pellets… when does one do the labs after the pellets are inserted? What does that number mean?

If T levels fall over time, then one’s adex dose will never be right in terms of T relative competitive action.

A constant dose of around 3 mg of test per day is constantly released into the body – no ups and downs, and it more mimics how we’d normal get T.

Why would the injections EOD avoid all the trouble you mention, but the pellets won’t? The pellets seem to have the advantages of the gels w/o their drawbacks.

The only drawback top guys in the field say are that, if your level is too high, the pellets would have to be surgically removed. F that, I want high! :wink:

[/quote]

Pellets wear out and they do not provide the same mg/day as they age.

Note references to peak and trough levels.

“”"
While your optimal, long term dose is being determined during the first 12 to 18 months of pellet therapy, blood levels will be taken at four weeks (peak levels) and at 10-14 weeks (trough levels) after each insertion.
“”"

Look at the chart of T vs time:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/82/8/2510.pdf?ck=nck

Note how E2 follows the same track. The intent of the study was something else. Note that some were injected every 3 weeks… horror! Others were pelletized. The T levels for pellets were way higher at peak. I could not see what the dose was for the T injections. The levels were checked after 3 weeks and then re-injected. So we should expect to see rather useless levels from that. But this is all a distraction from the charts data for pellets. Pellets and infrequent injections were simple a cost effective method of getting some guys on T to study the effects on leptin.

Note the SHBG repression by T, even with increasing E for both methods. In the charts, note where INJECTED T treatment ended on day 189.

hey guys… Im on TRT now…100mg a week…A new DR.wants to put me on TESOPELL (pelletts),he swears this will be better…less drops…more stable…etc…and said would keep me at a level of atleast 700,and add pelletts till im at 700 or so…any help would be great…should I switch ? thanks guys.

You already know that frequent injections, EOD, provide very steady levels. Your docs statement is relative to injecting every week or two weeks. While pellets cab provide “stable” levels, this can also be achieved with transdermals [for those who absorb well] or frequent injections. Pellets cost less that patches and more than injections and compounded creams [from some sources].

Do you feel that your levels are not stable now?

How do you inject now? Dose and frequency.

Hello sir…you have helped me in the past…so thank you…heres the bottum line…Im on 200mg every other week…but do 100 every week…im on no HCG no anti as 3 dr’s I talked all said do not need…and would not help me(levels went from 198 up to 750’s and yes,I felt no difference).all I can tell you is…heres my story…

I started TRT got nice pumps…def got stronger…that all stopped after about 4 months…and to be honest…as of today I see nor feel any difference in taking TRT…all I see is more ‘weight’ which Is what I do not wish for…seems a waste of time…now most will say must be my E2 levels…for a few months it was 37…at last check came down,( < 10 )Ive yet to hear,nor see any proof,that if all I do is add an anti…

ill feel great,4 dr’s all seem against that…so I say im getting fat I need an ANTI…they say your fat,so your E2 is high…and lower E2 does not = lower body fat…last visit doc said testes a lil small…but not bad,and this is after 1 yr on TRT…anty help would be great

Finding a doc who knows his stuff is hard. The guy I go is one of the ‘Pellet’ crowd, while others are ‘Inject’, and the GPs are the ‘gel’ folks.

I think the best choice is to pick something, play it, and switch until the results are what was desired. TRT is a lot of guesswork for these guys and I’ve found that KSMan and even myself know more about it than some docs.

Try the gels, as they are so easy. If not good enough, then try the shots. If that doesn’t work, try pellets. I will say that pellets is like one big shot once every 3 months — that’d be 26 injections of Cyp or Enan, in the same timeframe.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce… :wink:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Finding a doc who knows his stuff is hard. The guy I go is one of the ‘Pellet’ crowd, while others are ‘Inject’, and the GPs are the ‘gel’ folks.

I think the best choice is to pick something, play it, and switch until the results are what was desired. TRT is a lot of guesswork for these guys and I’ve found that KSMan and even myself know more about it than some docs.

Try the gels, as they are so easy. If not good enough, then try the shots. If that doesn’t work, try pellets. I will say that pellets is like one big shot once every 3 months — that’d be 26 injections of Cyp or Enan, in the same timeframe.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce… ;)[/quote]

I did gel,got sick of applying…on shots now…they want pellets…I get all meds for free so $$ not an issue

[quote]KSman wrote:
You already know that frequent injections, EOD, provide very steady levels. Your docs statement is relative to injecting every week or two weeks. While pellets cab provide “stable” levels, this can also be achieved with transdermals [for those who absorb well] or frequent injections. Pellets cost less that patches and more than injections and compounded creams [from some sources].

Do you feel that your levels are not stable now?

How do you inject now? Dose and frequency.[/quote]

Hello sir…you have helped me in the past…so thank you…heres the bottum line…Im on 200mg every other week…but do 100 every week…im on no HCG no anti as 3 dr’s I talked all said do not need…and would not help me(levels went from 198 up to 750’s and yes,I felt no difference).all I can tell you is…heres my story…

I started TRT got nice pumps…def got stronger…that all stopped after about 4 months…and to be honest…as of today I see nor feel any difference in taking TRT…all I see is more ‘weight’ which Is what I do not wish for…seems a waste of time…now most will say must be my E2 levels…for a few months it was 37…at last check came down,( < 10 )Ive yet to hear,nor see any proof,that if all I do is add an anti…

ill feel great,4 dr’s all seem against that…so I say im getting fat I need an ANTI…they say your fat,so your E2 is high…and lower E2 does not = lower body fat…last visit doc said testes a lil small…but not bad,and this is after 1 yr on TRT…anty help would be great

Well, your doctors are not going to get this right for you and you seem to be passive about this. You will be your own proof if you do what is needed. There is not much I can tell you that we did not discuss well over a year ago.

You can expect to not feel benefits from TRT if your E2 levels are too high. How you feel is also determined by the state of your neural transmitters and receptors. Getting T and E right, is the correct foundation, is necessary, but may not be sufficient. Thyroid hormones and adrenals hormones also need to be in a proper state.

You can find the right adex dose and get your own E2 tests if need be. If you control E2, you will loose fat.

Injecting once a week also promotes higher E levels than EOD injections.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Well, your doctors are not going to get this right for you and you seem to be passive about this. You will be your own proof if you do what is needed. There is not much I can tell you that we did not discuss well over a year ago.

You can expect to not feel benefits from TRT if your E2 levels are too high. How you feel is also determined by the state of your neural transmitters and receptors. Getting T and E right, is the correct foundation, is necessary, but may not be sufficient. Thyroid hormones and adrenals hormones also need to be in a proper state.

You can find the right adex dose and get your own E2 tests if need be. If you control E2, you will loose fat.

Injecting once a week also promotes higher E levels than EOD injections.[/quote]

ty sir, I do have graves disease…but even before that felt the same…I have a RX for E2 test,and test levels… heres the trade off…If I dump the dr who lets me inject at home.and will give me test for life.,but no HCG,ADEX…I lose that easy RX for test…If I go to the TESTOPELL guy…I get adex…and prob hcg…he’s some big time dr here…and wrote in many journals…

I am adding Anastanzerole from a research chem site, and have been since way before the pellets.

It is now 5 days since I had these pellets put in and I do feel a very mild sense of well-being that is different from before. I was previously doing Androgel twice per day, splitting the dose between evening and morning, and that seemed pretty decent too.

I’d wager that there is no best TRT protocol and that trial-and-error is simply a fact of this process.

KSman why are you so opposed to pellets? have you tried them and got neg results?
'cause I’m thinking too that once 3 or 4 months very minor procedure sounds lot better than bi-weekly injections or daily rubs with gels.

was just wondering 'cause your posts seem so adamantly against pellets, and haven’t seen much evidence one way or the other, other than gels and injections have been around alot longer, so it’s assumed that’s the way to go.

Pellets do start with stronger levels that fall later on. I don’t know how that is managed. If levels are not steady, then a steady anastrozole dose does not provide steady levels of E2. The claims that pellets provide better level control are based on comparisons to injections done every two weeks. So they picked a worst case to compare their product too.

I think that my biggest issue with pellets is big business attempting to make something simple and inexpensive expensive and complicated. And do doctors make unbiased decisions when they can have repeat minor surgical procedures for income. Do the docs who only do office T injections have the same financial bias that does not take the patients best interest as a priority? I have the same objections to T-gels and patches which are extremely expensive. High T content T creams are effective and affordable [LEF.org’s pharmacy].

Injected T is cheap and with EOD injections, T and E levels can be dead steady. The small volumes of EOD injections allow for injections with insulin needles. Those who promote pellets here may not have had a choice to self inject and may have insurance paying for the higher costs. I feel that T-gels and pellets products are profit motivated, not patient benefit motivated. Health insurance simply provides a huge market for products that are so overpriced that they would hardly be sustainable in a marketplace where there was no health insurance and product choice was based on an out-of-pocket cost:benefit ratio.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Pellets do start with stronger levels that fall later on. I don’t know how that is managed. If levels are not steady, then a steady anastrozole dose does not provide steady levels of E2. The claims that pellets provide better level control are based on comparisons to injections done every two weeks. So they picked a worst case to compare their product too.

I think that my biggest issue with pellets is big business attempting to make something simple and inexpensive expensive and complicated. And do doctors make unbiased decisions when they can have repeat minor surgical procedures for income. Do the docs who only do office T injections have the same financial bias that does not take the patients best interest as a priority? I have the same objections to T-gels and patches which are extremely expensive. High T content T creams are effective and affordable [LEF.org’s pharmacy].

Injected T is cheap and with EOD injections, T and E levels can be dead steady. The small volumes of EOD injections allow for injections with insulin needles. Those who promote pellets here may not have had a choice to self inject and may have insurance paying for the higher costs. I feel that T-gels and pellets products are profit motivated, not patient benefit motivated. Health insurance simply provides a huge market for products that are so overpriced that they would hardly be sustainable in a marketplace where there was no health insurance and product choice was based on an out-of-pocket cost:benefit ratio.[/quote]

you have a PM sir…