Got Neutered, Now What?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Bri Hildebrandt wrote:
Gerg wrote:
Good input. The article was a good guideline. Stupid of me k=not of searched for it. I thank you and my sak thanks you.
I may lift upper body light (work up to 80% ala WS4SB) today and see how it feels But definetly no LB until the stitched are dissolved.

HH- I’m confused as to what you mean by drastic. T levels should not decrease just because you had a vasectomy.

By all logic and physiology you would think this would be the case however there have been a staggering amount of case reports of men needing TRT after getting the snip. There seems to be an autoimmune response that’s downregulating testosterone production some how.

Not all men who get vasectomies end up needing TRT but a higher than average amount may. I think all men considering the operation should think about the possible complications, and men who are experiencing low T symptoms after the snip may consider getting some blood work done.

An article:

http://ccli.org/nfp/contraception/vasectomy.php

From Medline:

1: Arch Androl. 1981 Sep;7(2):193-9. Related Articles, Links

Immunological consequences of vasectomy.

Shahani SK, Hattikudur NS.

In more than 50% of men, vasectomy leads to auto-immune pathology. The auto-immune response to sperms following vasectomy is triggered by the phagocytosis of sperm in the epididymis. In the humoral immune response, sperm agglutinating, sperm immobilizing, and antibodies to sperm nuclear protamines occur, as early as 3-4 days after vasectomy. The incidence reaches 60-70% within 1 year and remains almost the same even after 20 years. Presence and effects of circulating immune complexes following vasectomy are discussed with reference to reported increased incidence of atherosclerosis and auto-immune orchitis in experimental animals. There is no positive conclusion whether vasectomy leads to cell mediated immunity to spermatozoa.

PIP: Vasectomy leads to auto-immune pathology in more than 50% of men. The immunological changes, if any, following vasectomy can be manifested in 2 ways: those that affect anatomy, either gross, microscopic, or submicroscopic, and adverse effect on the physiological mechanisms in the reproductive tract could be due to the presence of antibodies to sperm-specific antigens and may cross react with other tissues and secretions in the body. Gross anatomical changes include cystic swelling at the site of operation and development of spermatic granuloma. Included among the histological changes in experimental auto-immune orchitis or after vasectomy are: varying degree of vacuolization of the Sertoli cells; premature exfoliation of immature germ cells; coalescence of cellular units of the germ cell clones from multinucleate giant cells; distortion of spermatid nucleus and acrosome; and retention and degeneration of late spermatids within the epithelium. In some pathological conditions such as vas obstruction and vasectomy, due to phagocytosis of the spermatozoa the soluble antigens of the sperm leak into the circulation and produce autoantibodies. Sperm agglutinating antibodies in sera have been detected as soon as the 3rd or 4th day after vasectomy, but they appear in the sera more commonly between 6 weeks to 6 months. Circulating sperm immobilizing antibodies are found in 1%-3% of the nonvasectomized individuals. Within 6 months post operation, about 31% of men develop these antibodies. Swollen sperm head antibodies are found in less than 2% of nonvasectomized male populations and in 28%-33% of vasectomized males within a year following the operation. Presence and effects of circulating immune complexes following vasectomy are reviewed with reference to reported increased incidence of atherosclerosis and auto-immune orchitis in experimental animals. There is no positive conclusions as to whether vasectomy results in cell mediated immunity to spermatozoa.

PMID: 7283529 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
[/quote]

With all due respect, I have to take issue with your source. CCL pushes a natural means of birth control, thus they may present a biased view of the procedure. The other issue I have is that some of the views they state as factual on the site are disputed by other studies. Lastly, what does the test you pasted in have to do with T levels? If vasectomy leads to auto-immune pathology I don’t see how this would cause hanges in hormonal levels.

http://www.vasectomy-information.com/links/docguidecom.pdf

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/1/1/40

(1992). IMPACT OF VASECTOMY ON MORTALITY. Journal Watch (General) 1992: 1-1 [Full Text]
Harris, N M, Holmes, S A V (2001). Requests for vasectomy: counselling and consent. J R Soc Med 94: 510-511

Moller, H, Knudsen, L B, Lynge, E (1994). Risk of testicular cancer after vasectomy: cohort study of over 73 000 men. BMJ 309: 295-299

22

I know a guy who had the “no scalpel” vascectomy on Friday and ran a marathon on Saturday.

I didn’t do shit but bitch and moan for a week.

23

[quote]doogie wrote:
I know a guy who had the “no scalpel” vascectomy on Friday and ran a marathon on Saturday.

I didn’t do shit but bitch and moan for a week.[/quote]

I had “no’scalpel” in '92 and it was great. Two days off then back to full activity. I’d recommmend it to anyone getting snipped. A lot of docs are using a modified “no scalpel” which is almost as side effect free.

24

[quote]Patrick Williams wrote:
doogie wrote:
I know a guy who had the “no scalpel” vascectomy on Friday and ran a marathon on Saturday.

I didn’t do shit but bitch and moan for a week.

I had “no’scalpel” in '92 and it was great. Two days off then back to full activity. I’d recommmend it to anyone getting snipped. A lot of docs are using a modified “no scalpel” which is almost as side effect free.

[/quote]

Like anything else, I think it all depends on the individual. I felt a lot of pain during my vasectomy and continue to have some residual tenderness from time to time 18 months later. I’m one of the lucky ones I guess. I still think it was worth it though because I hate condoms and I hate pulling out(not that it’s reliable), which is how #3 was conceived (her: put something on, me: I’ll just pull out, oops, I forgot).

DB

25

I had mine about 2 years ago. Don’t do ANY heavy lifting for two weeks…I took one week completely off, but then couldn’t stay out of the gym so on the second week I just did arms and shoulders…Nothing that strained the abs though.

26

Funny this thread came up because I just got neutered on Friday. The freezing definately wasn’t 100% during the precedure but it wasn’t as bad as I thought. It was the cut and stitch variety. I am still a little soar. Just walking and having my legs smack my balls is making them sore. I already did the wife several times however so I am happy everything works down there. I am glad I did it because I may become suicidal if I had another kid and pulling out or condoms suck. Birth control for the wife didn’t work well since that is how number one showed up.
I am definately not in a hurry to squat. I am really itching to go mountain biking but just the thought of sitting on my tiny seat makes the boys sore. Monday I will start exercising again.

27

[quote]doogie wrote:
I know a guy who had the “no scalpel” vascectomy on Friday and ran a marathon on Saturday.

I didn’t do shit but bitch and moan for a week.[/quote]

What hapened on Sunday?

I have an associate at work who had the procedure (scalpel, though), felt great and played 2 rounds of golf the day after. He spent a week in the hospital because his balls swelled to the size (his description) of grapefruits. God bless technology!

28

[quote]Gerg wrote:
Bri Hildebrandt wrote:
Gerg wrote:
Good input. The article was a good guideline. Stupid of me k=not of searched for it. I thank you and my sak thanks you.
I may lift upper body light (work up to 80% ala WS4SB) today and see how it feels But definetly no LB until the stitched are dissolved.

HH- I’m confused as to what you mean by drastic. T levels should not decrease just because you had a vasectomy.

By all logic and physiology you would think this would be the case however there have been a staggering amount of case reports of men needing TRT after getting the snip. There seems to be an autoimmune response that’s downregulating testosterone production some how.

Not all men who get vasectomies end up needing TRT but a higher than average amount may. I think all men considering the operation should think about the possible complications, and men who are experiencing low T symptoms after the snip may consider getting some blood work done.

An article:

http://ccli.org/nfp/contraception/vasectomy.php

From Medline:

1: Arch Androl. 1981 Sep;7(2):193-9. Related Articles, Links

Immunological consequences of vasectomy.

Shahani SK, Hattikudur NS.

In more than 50% of men, vasectomy leads to auto-immune pathology. The auto-immune response to sperms following vasectomy is triggered by the phagocytosis of sperm in the epididymis. In the humoral immune response, sperm agglutinating, sperm immobilizing, and antibodies to sperm nuclear protamines occur, as early as 3-4 days after vasectomy. The incidence reaches 60-70% within 1 year and remains almost the same even after 20 years. Presence and effects of circulating immune complexes following vasectomy are discussed with reference to reported increased incidence of atherosclerosis and auto-immune orchitis in experimental animals. There is no positive conclusion whether vasectomy leads to cell mediated immunity to spermatozoa.

PIP: Vasectomy leads to auto-immune pathology in more than 50% of men. The immunological changes, if any, following vasectomy can be manifested in 2 ways: those that affect anatomy, either gross, microscopic, or submicroscopic, and adverse effect on the physiological mechanisms in the reproductive tract could be due to the presence of antibodies to sperm-specific antigens and may cross react with other tissues and secretions in the body. Gross anatomical changes include cystic swelling at the site of operation and development of spermatic granuloma. Included among the histological changes in experimental auto-immune orchitis or after vasectomy are: varying degree of vacuolization of the Sertoli cells; premature exfoliation of immature germ cells; coalescence of cellular units of the germ cell clones from multinucleate giant cells; distortion of spermatid nucleus and acrosome; and retention and degeneration of late spermatids within the epithelium. In some pathological conditions such as vas obstruction and vasectomy, due to phagocytosis of the spermatozoa the soluble antigens of the sperm leak into the circulation and produce autoantibodies. Sperm agglutinating antibodies in sera have been detected as soon as the 3rd or 4th day after vasectomy, but they appear in the sera more commonly between 6 weeks to 6 months. Circulating sperm immobilizing antibodies are found in 1%-3% of the nonvasectomized individuals. Within 6 months post operation, about 31% of men develop these antibodies. Swollen sperm head antibodies are found in less than 2% of nonvasectomized male populations and in 28%-33% of vasectomized males within a year following the operation. Presence and effects of circulating immune complexes following vasectomy are reviewed with reference to reported increased incidence of atherosclerosis and auto-immune orchitis in experimental animals. There is no positive conclusions as to whether vasectomy results in cell mediated immunity to spermatozoa.

PMID: 7283529 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

With all due respect, I have to take issue with your source. CCL pushes a natural means of birth control, thus they may present a biased view of the procedure. The other issue I have is that some of the views they state as factual on the site are disputed by other studies. Lastly, what does the test you pasted in have to do with T levels? If vasectomy leads to auto-immune pathology I don’t see how this would cause hanges in hormonal levels.

http://www.vasectomy-information.com/links/docguidecom.pdf

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/1/1/40

(1992). IMPACT OF VASECTOMY ON MORTALITY. Journal Watch (General) 1992: 1-1 [Full Text]
Harris, N M, Holmes, S A V (2001). Requests for vasectomy: counselling and consent. J R Soc Med 94: 510-511

Moller, H, Knudsen, L B, Lynge, E (1994). Risk of testicular cancer after vasectomy: cohort study of over 73 000 men. BMJ 309: 295-299 [/quote]

I did a quick google search with the words vasectomy, autoimmune, and hypogonadism. That was one page of many that talked about the possibility. The link seems to be stronger between vasectomy and all autoimmune disorders, not as much between vasectomy and hypogonadism. I had also read about it before a number of times from men on an HRT forum I visit often.

One possible mechanism is the autoimmunity may be attacking the testes resulting in lowered T levels. It wouldn’t happen with all men, but it’s possible a certain portion are more presdisposed to it. I wasn’t really trying to prove anything, just give a word of warning as to the possible dangers. I could be wrong. I hope I am, for all mens sake. :slight_smile:

29

Let me preface this by saying that I really don’t know much about this so I’m looking for answers not conflict. That being said, I don’t understand how would this work. Attacking sperm with nowhere to go, OK. I can also see autoimmune causing artheriosclerosis or arthitis issues, but i don’t see why it would affect the Testes directly, unless it would be to decrease the production of sperm and the lowered T-levels are an indirect effect? Any one got a study or web page? autoimmune disorders for dummies?

30

Just a slightly different experience…I had the procedure done at 8:00am, lasted maybe 10 minutes, most of which was having my pubic hairs shaved off. Watched the whole procedure, never in any pain, discomfort, soreness, etc. My surgeon said I could do whatever my ‘tolerance’ allowed.

That evening, at 6:00pm, I squatted heavy as I was training for the NASA Nationals in OK City. To the best of my recollection, I finished with a 575 triple with belt, wraps and a suit with straps down. At no time was I even aware that I had surgery earlier that day, or at any time since! Good Luck.
Art

31

[quote]QuarterTonner wrote:
Just a slightly different experience…I had the procedure done at 8:00am, lasted maybe 10 minutes, most of which was having my pubic hairs shaved off. Watched the whole procedure, never in any pain, discomfort, soreness, etc. My surgeon said I could do whatever my ‘tolerance’ allowed.

That evening, at 6:00pm, I squatted heavy as I was training for the NASA Nationals in OK City. To the best of my recollection, I finished with a 575 triple with belt, wraps and a suit with straps down. At no time was I even aware that I had surgery earlier that day, or at any time since! Good Luck.
Art[/quote]

Wow! If you hadn’t said you watched the procedure, I would have questioned whether or not you had it done. Did you really watch the operation? Just thinking about what was done freaks me out. Just having my cock and balls that close to another mans face freaks me out.

32

I got snipped almost 4 years ago, no scalpel open ended. My T level skyrocketted to 1240 ng/dl and leveled off around 840 ng/dl.

That link is a front for that ass monkey that runs don’t fix it dot org, what an asshat he is.

Be sure that this is what you want and that you are done making babies. 2nd thoughts are expensive and painful as hell.
ROB