T Nation

GOP Debate


Another fun-packed GOP Debate evening is about to kick off!
Post your impressions and favorite lines here......


Gary Johnson is awesome IMO, hope he gains some steam.


Ha ha
I actually fell asleep after 1/2 hour.
Guess I'll have to read about it.


Have to admit, only ended up watching around 30 minutes also. From what I watched, the debate seemed decent, just many of the answers were similar to others in past debates.

I get the general impression that Rick Perry had another poor showing last night. One of several write ups with a similar theme about that:

Alana Goodman's article ~

"Can Perry Compete at This Level?"


Unfortunately he has no chance, but hopefully he can use this as a learning experience to try again at a later time. He needs to get over his nerves from being on stage.


My impression is that it is a very bad sign of things when I can honestly say I prefer Romney over Perry, and that is not an endorsement for Romney in any way whatsoever.


ANYONE but Romney.

Some highlights from Romney:

"Abortion should be free and legal in this country."

"I will do more to support gay rights than Ted Kennedy"
"I support gays serving openly in military."
"I support gay boy scout leaders"

"I'm not trying to return to Reagan/Bush. I was an idenpendent during Reagan/Bush and did not support them."

"I support affirmative action."

"I don't support the NRA. We have tough gun laws in MA. I support them. I believe they keep us safe."


Supports national RomneyCare (aka ObamaCare).

"I believe human activity is causing global warming."

In sum, Romney is a Democrat currently pretending to be a Republican.


Don't get me wrong, both of them are trying to serve us up shit sandwiches. Romney is just smart enough to put a little ketchup on his first.


You guys are funny.

If you think Romney is bad I wonder what you think about Obama? Romney ran in liberal Massachusetts and gave them what they wanted to hear. If he actually believed those positions then he's certainly out grown them at this point. If he never believed those things and just said them to get elected then I guess you can say he's a politician. Do you think any of them are better than this? If you do you're young and naive, or worse plain stupid.

Mitt Romney is still the very best hope that we have of getting rid of possibly our worst modern day President with the exception of LBJ.

My Debate Assessment

--Perry looked lost in that debate last night. He can clearly be called a "not ready for prime time player." If he gets the nomination the democrats will have a field day with him. And if you want to talk liberal take a look at some of the things he did in Texas. Sure I'd vote for the guy over Obama in a heart beat, but I vote for my dog over Obama so that's not saying much.

--Ron Paul continues to be the greatest source of laughter in the race this year. He maintained his position on a fence being able to hold in Americans (eye roll). Between his senility and his wacky libertarian views I really look forward to watching him. Absolutely great entertainment.

--Huntsman was impressive. But his socially liberal positions will keep him out of the top spot. And I doubt there will be a place for him on the ticket.

--Gingrich was by far the smartest man on stage last night. He would make Mitt Romney an excellent VP.

--Cain appears more relaxed than in previous debates and that's because he knows now that he has no chance so the pressure is off.

--Gary Johnson is a bad joke. And furthermore he steals jokes from Rush Limbaugh. He entered the race late and will most likely leave early. But not early enough to please me. He's trying to steal Ron Paul's naive following. But he just doesn't understand yet how loyal those kiddies are.

--Bachman still thinks she has the chance to be one of the big dogs but that ship sailed when Perry entered the race and stole her thunder. She looked good on stage though :slightly_smiling:

--Santorum looked pretty good handing Perry his head on the free college for illegal immigrants issue. He could also make someone a very good VP.

Finally, if you guys think that anyone but Romney can stand toe to toe with Obama on a stage and actually hold his own in presentation skills, charisma and hands on experience your smoking something that you shouldn't be. If Romney does not get the nomination Obama will be guaranteed a second term. And even if Romney does get the nomination it will be an up hill fight. He will need to choose the right VP and run a near flawless campaign. But he is absolutely the only candidate who can beat Obama.

So there it is boys---If you don't like Romney and he gets the nomination vote for Obama or stay home. And keep in mind, just like in 08' in the end the people will get the type of leadership that they deserves!


So you will eat shit just because someone puts a lil' dressing on it? WTF guy?????

Here is Ron Paul in the debate:


Yes, that is [sarcasm]exactly[/sarcasm] what I said.


Perry is lost. He has been exposed as the straight C student and the ex-democrat that he is. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the masses realize this and I think he has a real chance at the nomination.

We've already established that we agree that he won't get the nomination. If you want to continue to attack his views how about you do so with some substance?

Huntsman comes across as the most sleazy politician up there. He is nothing more than another RINO.

Gingrich, Romney, and Paul are miles ahead of the others as far as intellectualism. That is the one thing I can honestly say I like about Romney. It is his view of the role of government that is the problem. Gingrich is basically no different except that he sees the government as having a slightly less role that Romney.

I'm liking Cain more and more. He's far from myas perfect candidate, but he really is starting to show the charisma necessary to compete. His improvement comes from having more experience over the last couple months. He is clearly an outsider, but at this point I do think he is still in the race.

Johnson is exactly what this country needs but will never have. He's not trying to steal anything, but is simply aiming for a true small, constitutional government. Unfortunately, he suffers from all the same issues as Paul and will never appeal to the masses.

Bachman's done for no other reason than the media has found a new flavor of the week in Perry. Santorum is the biggest government republican up there. He is exactly what gives conservatives a bad name.

I think Cain, Romney, and Bachman all could compete with Obama head to head and win. Bachman likely doesn't have a chance as she will be destroyed by the media. I am really starting to think Cain could be a good president. He is conservative enough to get us going in the right direction, but not so libertarian to be labeled as extreme. He'll get the Uncle Tom label for sure, but probably not so much against BO. Romney could compete for sure, and I don't doubt he would be an improvement. My problem with him is that, just like Obama, he still views government as the solution. Until the voters get away from the idea of the almighty .gov, none of the true conservative candidates have a chance.


We agree on most of the candidates and it's no fun to agree. So I'll just pick up on where we disagree.

What's this a 20 something who likes Ron Paul? Why I've never seen such a thing...LOL. Sorry Tedro you're a good guy and for you I'll back off. But just let me say I've discussed Paul's views ad nauseum right here on these threads(Even the fence issue above). Now it's time to sit back and laugh at this very odd man, and his simplistic views of very complex world issues. He is funny and I'm glad he's in the race. Whenever it gets intense the moderators seem to know that asking Paul a question will lighten the moment.

Wanna bet? Cain has no more chance at the nomination than Santa Clause....or Ron Paul. But I do like what Cain stands for. It's just that he can't possibly win the nomination which is a good thing as Obama would crush him in a general election.

In your eyes because you might not like social conservatism, most of your generation doesn't (forgive me if I have inaccurately placed you with your generation). You come from a generation that thinks it's cool to not care what anyone else is doing as in your generations limited experience you KNOW that it couldn't possibly effect you (which of course is wrong minded as every thing effects everything else in some way positive or negative). Keep in mind I am not necessarily defining you, just your generation, so don't get upset my friend.

Santorum is a true conservative, socially, fiscally and in foreign policy. And he would make Romney a great VP, as would Gingrich.

As you said the media killed Bachman, she's not competing with anyone head to head and winning. She had the Palin treatment early on. And in all fairness I think she does get rattled under pressure. Obama would own her one one one. Cain would get eaten alive in charisma alone on a stage with Obama. It would look like Obama debating his slower far more conservative Uncle. But we don't have to worry about that because Cain will never crawl out from the bottom half of the group. He's a permanent cellar dweller. But as I said I love what he stands for too. Keep in mind that means nothing! We need someone to beat Obama. And say what you want about Romney, he is one big step in the right direction. I'll take it.

Psst...here's a clue, they're NEVER going to get away from that concept, at least not in one election. Entire generations have grown up depending on government. Almost half the country doesn't pay taxes and 1 in 4 families are almost totally dependent on some form of government aid.

So....let's cross our fingers that Romney gets the nomination defeats Obama and brings us several steps away from the socialist policies that Obama stands for. Keep in mind Romney is a free market guy who made millions as a capitalist. And that's what we need right now.

One final point.

Think in terms of getting stronger. Let's say you'd love to bench 400 pounds, but right now you can only bench half that much. In your next workout do you shoot for 225 (or some weight closer to 200), or right to 400 pounds? That's where our country is at my friend. We need to get better a few pounds at a time. Inch by inch we need to slide away from big government and toward personal responsibility. But that will not happen in one election. It happens over a generation of elections IF it happens at all.

And the idiots who say "if Paul isn't the nominee I'm either staying home or voting for Obama" are truly immature and do not understand how real change is made. But I know this for sure it's never over night. We didn't get to this awful place in one election and we will not reverse it all in one election.


One important point to bring up:

Perry took a hit with the Tea Party with his stand on 1) the HPV Vaccine and 2) College tuition to illegal immigrants.

Will it be enough for them to get behind another candidate?

Only time will tell.



First of all the notion that Perry is a true conservative is a joke. And that joke is being widely talked about in Tea Party circles. One only need look at the latest polling data to see that Romney is now within 6 pts. or so of Perry. When Perry first entered the race he had Romney doubled. The word is getting out about what Perry is all about.

Perry is a very poor candidate judging by his debate performance and his very odd liberal political stands in Texas. And his performance over all has been weak. Attacking social security and scaring the old people is NOT the way to win Florida. Nor is it a way to gain the support of senior citizens in any state. And senior's vote at a rate of 67% which is almost three times more than the 20 something group---Thank God! As those under 28 supported Obama by about 5 to 1.

Anyway, I see Perry as a loose cannon who will put his foot in his mouth in a general election as he's done in the primary race. And as I've been saying we need a near perfect candidate and a near perfect race to unseat Obama.

At this point I even question the wisdom of putting Perry on the ticket. Romney can win Texas without Perry. Traditionally a VP can hurt you more than help you. And Perry could be the death knell for the GOP ticket, top or bottom.

My imnpulse is to choose a Romney/Gingrich ticket when I listen to Newt. But Gingrich comes with baggage. He was involved in a scandal or two back in the 90's--mostly politically motivated but we all know how things look on paper. And we also know that the main stream liberal media will pounce on any little thing to keep Obama in office. Also, Romney will win Georgia without Gingrich.


I would pick Romney/Santorum. That is a better bet to unseat Obama as Santorum can deliver PA. A state that Obama must have to win reelection.


Christie is going to jump in, I am calling this right now.

Get ready for a Christie-Rubio ticket in 2012. They will poke fun at his fatness, but at this point I think people will be willing to say 'fuck it' and consider it.


Wanna bet?




Again...the "Southern Primary" of Super Tuesday will be Romney's true test...



This just in:

"Texas Gov. Rick Perry's presidential campaign was dealt a worrying blow Saturday when he finished a distant second to businessman Herman Cain in a closely watched straw poll in Florida".

"Cain won 37% of the 2,657 votes cast in the straw poll conducted at Presidency 5, a three-day convention sponsored by the Republican Party of Florida. Perry got just 410 votes, or 15.4%. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney finished third with 14%".

"Perry was expected to win the straw poll as the weekend began, but his underwhelming performance at a GOP debate on Thursday night raised questions about his readiness for prime time".