T Nation

Good Results on Nolva?


#1

Currently I am using NO Trt.
I have not had blood drawn and its been since Mid OCT that I tappered and stopped Clomid. I am sure its low since my Libido is not where I want it, I'll get it checked at 6 months on nothing and evaluate..

My question is - Who has had good results with Nolvadex ? Clomid worked for me in driving up my Total T ect.. But overall didn't feel well on even small doses..
Some here recommend Nolva , but we never see results from anybody on a NOLVA type MONOtherapy..

Discuss !


#2

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
Currently I am using NO Trt.
I have not had blood drawn and its been since Mid OCT that I tappered and stopped Clomid. I am sure its low since my Libido is not where I want it, I’ll get it checked at 6 months on nothing and evaluate…

My question is - Who has had good results with Nolvadex ? Clomid worked for me in driving up my Total T ect… But overall didn’t feel well on even small doses…
Some here recommend Nolva , but we never see results from anybody on a NOLVA type MONOtherapy…

Discuss ![/quote]

I was on Nolva, consistently, for almost three years.

When I started, my TT fluctuated between 159-350. I could hardly function. Within a few months of getting on Nolva at 40mg a day, my TT climbed to 900. I also had to get on adex, .25mg, twice a week. This kept my TT around 800-900 and E2 20-30 (3-70).

So lets say that was a year. Over that year, things obviously got better. I could live again. Not perfect, but better.

Over the next two years, three things happened. 1) Lowered Nolva dose to 20mg, then 10mg, then 5mg. 2) Had to raise adex dose to keep E2 at bay. 3) SHGB climbed from 20 to 44 (7-49).

I never felt 100%. I had great days, but my overall feel was just never like it was before hormone issues. The only true side effect I had was zero libido - for three years. BUT - likely from the high SHBG, things kind of leveled off and stayed decent but not great. When I tried to get off, everything crashed pretty bad. Further, even while on Nolvadex, I would have some crashes. The issue with a hormone flux, while taking adex, is your E2 gets dumped. What felt like overnight, my TT might drop from 900 to 500. Thats fine, unless you are taking 1.25mg of adex a week… which for a TT of 500, crashed my estrogen. Then TT would climb back up to 900 and all would balance again. Btw, Nolva is known to reduce the effectiveness of adex, hence the larger doses. On TRT, I don’t need any adex for TT levels as high as 1400.

This year, I switched to TRT. I am still working out the kinks, but overall, it wins. I never trusted the long-term Nolvadex treatment. There were WAY too many ups and downs. Further, because of it, I forgot was a libido was for three years.

Excellent for restarts - but I am not so sure about long term treatment… at least for me.

-Jim


#3

There are some studies on adherence in men prescribed Nolvadex for breast cancer. A significant percentage of male patients stop taking it because they blame it for sexual side effects.

AFAIK this is at doses of 20-40 mg a day. Side effects at lower doses may be less.


#4

I’m doing 20mg ED now. I tested after a couple week and results weren’t great. Total T in the low 400s and Free T at 13. E2 was crashed so stopped taking any kind of AI. I’m testing again in a couple weeks, probably 4 or 5 weeks from the last test. I have had absolutely no libido since starting nolva. It sucks. No signs of high or low E2, but we’ll see what the test says. So far I would rank nolva below Torem, clomid, HCG and Test.


#5

Nolvadex is a SERM and does what a SERM does. It does not have the bad side Clomid effects that some guys have. For guys with that Clomid problem, Nolvadex is the only main-stream alternative. In all cases, you try it and if it works well for you, thats all there is.

Other issues with any SERM:

  • too high a dose will create high E2 levels that cannot be managed with anastrozole
  • start with a smaller dose and check TT, fT, E2, LH/FSH after a few weeks
  • if LH/FSH are very low, SERM will not work
  • if LH/FSH are nice levels and T is up and E2 manageable, you are good to go
  • if LH/FSH high and E2 high, you must reduce SERM dose
  • you may need a AI during SERM use
  • you should have a low dose AI after tapering off and cruise on that.

#6

You cannot treat E2 when on a SERM the same way as you treat E2 when not on a SERM.

The E2 might read high, but since E2 is being blocked in many tissues by the SERM, the net effect may be that some tissues are starved of E2. This cannot be quantified by E2 test results in any way that makes sense to me.


#7

Interesting point. Some guys report that they feel OK on SERM’s. So its hard to know the implications.


#8

For me I had pretty good Libido on Clomid, but some say NONE on Nolva.
Do many report the same on Clomid ?

Just looking for options.


#9

[quote]seekonk wrote:
There are some studies on adherence in men prescribed Nolvadex for breast cancer. A significant percentage of male patients stop taking it because they blame it for sexual side effects.

AFAIK this is at doses of 20-40 mg a day. Side effects at lower doses may be less.

[/quote]

I went as low as 2.5mg EOD and still expierenced no libido. It came back once I stopped completely for a few weeks.

-Jim


#10

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
For me I had pretty good Libido on Clomid, but some say NONE on Nolva.
Do many report the same on Clomid ?

Just looking for options.[/quote]

Hard to remember… I couldn’t stop crying when I was on Clomid :wink:


#11

Well damn, I was thinking about trying out nolvadex to restart HPTA but this makes it seem pretty futile.