T Nation

Good Program for My Goals?

Hey guys i was wondering if anyone out there can pitch some advice on where i should go with my training. I want just about what everyone wants, to be bigger and stronger (hypertrophy + strength) can anyone suggest anything other than freaking strong lifts and 531 because i already did that. the lift that i would like to be incorporated are all the main lifts (bench dead squat front squat OHP) and some bicep curls and farmers carries. and shrugs.

i know its asking a lot to ask to help me put together a plan but i just can’t find any that i really like that are out there. i want a simple muscle building program that can be similar to stronglifts but I’m desperate to switch it up in the gym. if i have to do workout A and then workout B 2 days later one more time ill flip. ANY tips are appreciated

does this at least look decent?

workout A
deadlift 1x4
OHP 4x4
bicep curl 3x8
farmers walk

workout b
bench 4x4
squat 4x4
row 4x4
close grip bench 3x8

Go out and look at how Dan Green trains–I think you might like it. He’s written up a decent amount about it at another forum in particular. The general outline is:

Deadlift + assistance (block pulls and SLDL)
Bench + assistance (other pressing, back, and arm work)
Squat + assistance (paused squat, SLDL)
OHP + assistance (other shoulder work, back, arms)
Front Squat (no assistance)
With a couple rest days somewhere in there.

I’ve been doing this for the lower body lifts (having a separate shoulder day fucks up my crappy shoulders so I took out the shoulder day) for a little while and it’s my favorite program by far! It allows for enough variation to make it interesting but not enough so that it detracts from strength gains. I highly recommend it.

Also, why do you care so much if the routine has shrugs in it? If you do deadlifts, front squats, block pulls, and lots of rowing and facepulls your traps should grow just fine.

[quote]AbsuM- wrote:
Hey guys i was wondering if anyone out there can pitch some advice on where i should go with my training. I want just about what everyone wants, to be bigger and stronger (hypertrophy + strength) can anyone suggest anything other than freaking strong lifts and 531 because i already did that. the lift that i would like to be incorporated are all the main lifts (bench dead squat front squat OHP) and some bicep curls and farmers carries. and shrugs.

i know its asking a lot to ask to help me put together a plan but i just can’t find any that i really like that are out there. i want a simple muscle building program that can be similar to stronglifts but I’m desperate to switch it up in the gym. if i have to do workout A and then workout B 2 days later one more time ill flip. ANY tips are appreciated[/quote]
How long did you do Stronglifts and 531? Did you see progress?

OmniStyx i will have to look into that for after this cut, thanks. and Ecchastang i did strong lifts or almost a year. i started with it, so lets just say my lifts went up dramatically (i couldn’t even deadliest 135 now going on 405) it is a great program but I’m ready for a change just because I’m bored in the gym and want to add biceps and farmers walk at least while on this cut, just to switch it up. i will probably go back to strong lifts when i can start eating at a surplus again but for now i just want something fresh and to not squat 3 times a week. i feel like i can easily maintain my strength on this cut with this routine (modified strong lifts) what do you think

workout A
deadlift 1x4
OHP 4x4
bicep curl 3x8
farmers walk

workout b
bench 4x4
squat 4x4
row 4x4
close grip bench 3x8

I know its not THE GREATEST thing i can do but i think itl be fun and ill be able to switch it up and enjoy myself with new exercises. do you guys think i can maintain strength doing this? i hope so because I’m really leaning towards it. i diid workout A today and maintained the deadlift and had fun with the biceps and farmers walk

I feel as though you have been asking this question all over this site. What answer are you looking for?

T3hPwnisher- i have been asking this question all over this sight and i have not gotten an answer. thats why i continue to ask. when a few people answer i won’t ask again lol. the main question is the post above yours…thanks

Try it and see what happens. If you can’t handle it, then you can’t. It isn’t worth stressing about.

thanks for the advice

There is Cube, Cube 365, Juggernaut, WS4SB, conjugate, Coan, C&P, Dinosaur…tons of routines that you can choose from. You said you are almost to a 405 pull which is excellent progress, but at your strength level, any of these could work if applied correctly.

If you get bored easily, but still want a program that isn’t too difficult to make a plan out of, there’s westside for skinny bastards. After a while when you’re out of the beginner stage you could wean off of it into a full westside macro. That’s not to say I don’t think Westside can’t work for a beginner, just that it’s probably sub-optimal for a beginner to try to formulate a Westside macro cycle.

When you ask what you have looks decent… that’s really hard to say. A program is more than just sets and reps. It’s also going to be difficult for you at your stage to be able to tell what you really need to. Which is why people are suggesting you get on a proven program. It will help you make gains while learning what your body responds to.

You seem to want to learn how to do programming on your own and learn a good bit more through the process which is why I personally recommend WS4SB. I wish I did that before plunging into a full blown butchered WSBB routine.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/layering_system_and_power_lifting?id=5578352&pageNo=4

Halfway down the page. It’s pretty fun. You can add bicep/back work and carries at the end of any day

I would say, at this point, forget programming. If you’re serious about training then most of the time you’ll likely do better without it. For strength and strength-skill, plus general conditioning, focus on singles. It doesn’t matter if they’re maximal, submaximal, repeated for volume, anything, but I would recommend that you use them. At the end of the day, barbell lifts are about force output and skill, not “working the muscle”.
If you work hard and often on singles with a few doubles/triples, then add in strongman work and other ‘functional’ training for more physical training and muscle development, I have a feeling you might find training more enjoyable and productive.

Train 3-7 days a week, but at least 4 is good. Adapt your training based on your results and aims, but always push for improvement. I’m seriously fed up with debate over deloads and periodisation etc., it just doesn’t matter that much for most people most of the time.
Good luck.

You might try this, I find it fun and highly effective

It all takes time. Just put in the work. For strength - regulating the 1-5 rep range works best. Getting in a good amount of volume in that range works well also. Learn to LISTEN to your body. Look to follow methods and principles, not necessarily a program.

[quote]halcj wrote:
I would say, at this point, forget programming. If you’re serious about training then most of the time you’ll likely do better without it. For strength and strength-skill, plus general conditioning, focus on singles. It doesn’t matter if they’re maximal, submaximal, repeated for volume, anything, but I would recommend that you use them. At the end of the day, barbell lifts are about force output and skill, not “working the muscle”.
If you work hard and often on singles with a few doubles/triples, then add in strongman work and other ‘functional’ training for more physical training and muscle development, I have a feeling you might find training more enjoyable and productive.

Train 3-7 days a week, but at least 4 is good. Adapt your training based on your results and aims, but always push for improvement. I’m seriously fed up with debate over deloads and periodisation etc., it just doesn’t matter that much for most people most of the time.
Good luck.[/quote]

i would like to see the results gained from “periodization does not matter” because that is nonsense

[quote]batman122 wrote:
i would like to see the results gained from “periodization does not matter” because that is nonsense
[/quote]

I managed this a few weeks ago and I don’t employ periodization

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]batman122 wrote:
i would like to see the results gained from “periodization does not matter” because that is nonsense
[/quote]

I managed this a few weeks ago and I don’t employ periodization


That’s Damn strong! I don’t periodize either.

Well… technically it is. It’s called cybernetic periodization. :slight_smile:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]batman122 wrote:
i would like to see the results gained from “periodization does not matter” because that is nonsense
[/quote]

I managed this a few weeks ago and I don’t employ periodization

ok well when i see results that are better than aaaall the greats who use periodization, such as kaz, coan, furnas, karwoski, then i will gladly throw it out