T Nation

Good Cycle for Massive Gains


Hey guys,

I have decided that I want to do a serious cycle and add serious muscle size.

Some background: I am 36 years old, 200 pounds, and very low body fat (8-9%). I have been lifting consistently for about 14 years and have seen some decent gains. I've tried a 2-3 very mellow cycles one was only deca. 500 a week for 8 weeks and the other was test (300 a week) and Deca 500 ( a week) for 8 weeks. I added about 10 pounds.

It is time for me to do a real cycle- HGH with IGF tren?., this is my first time on this forum or any bodybuilding forum Definitely would like some guidance from people on this forum. T-Nation has been my primary source of information for years, I am looking for a quality advice and I know I can get it here.

Looking forward to your replies. Thanks guys!


Read the stickies please. You haven't given us nearly enough to work with.


Ok let me try again
I am 36 years old weight 200 lbs height 5 10. Currently doing a getting big work out program I split my work out program and doing one day chest and back, one day shoulders, one day arms , one day legs keeping the weight at a 4-6 and 8-12 reps. Heavy medium weight . super sets everything
Previous cycle: Did two cycles of Deca 300 mg per week for 8 weeks.
Last cycle :
Week / Test.E / Winstrol :
1) 500mg/ /day 50mg/day
2) 500mg/day 50mg/day
3) 500mg/day 50mg/day
4) 500mg/day 50mg/day
5) 500mg/week
6) 500mg/week
7) 500mg/week
8) 500mg/week
9) 500mg/week
I tried to take oral dbol make me feel sick so I stopped immediately. Deca worked very well for me in the past. not huge gains. About 10 lbs in 10 weeks. When I got off the test in the last cycle I got really depress I read it has that side effect on some people. I would prefer to avoid it .

My Goals: getting bigger adding muscle mass.
Thinking to do HGH and IGF with tren?
Not sure how exactly to take them yet .this is all new to me. Please let me know what you think guys.


Please, read the stickies and try again.

You will get help, but we aren't going to spoon feed you.


Ok Here is the cycle I was thinking about:

Here is the cycle I was thinking of.

  • WEEKS 1-6: Anapolon (wk1 50mg per day, wk2 100mg per day, wk3 150mg per day, wk4 150mg per day, wk5 100mg per day, wk6 50mg per day)
    • WEEKS 1-6: Trenabol (75mg Every Other Day)
    • WEEKS 1-8: Testosterone Enanthate (1000 mg Per Week)
* WEEKS 1-10: HCG (Pregnyl) ***300-500IU EVERY 5 DAYS***
* WEEKS 1-10: Anastrozol (0.50 mg Every Other Day)
* WEEK 11: 40mg Nolva/100mg Clomid Every Day
* WEEK 12: 30mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid Every Day
* WEEK 13: 20mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid Every Day

In addition to that I plan to take every other day HGH 2-3 I.U. for 8 weeks.
IGF- 2 i.u after each work out and start increasing it by 1 I.U every other work out till i get to a comfortable level.

also going to consume with it at least 10 grams of simple carbs like raisins or Ultra Fuel by twin lab. per IU with minimum intake of 100 gram of simple carbs regarding doses . appx 20-30 min after injecting the IGF.
also thought to take creatine with the carbs drink ., and 30 grams of mix whey and casine protein.


0.5 mg anastrozol every other day is not enough to control aromatization of 1000mg of testoterone per week.

Which IGF are you using? IGF-1, LR3 variant, or IGF-2. IGF is not measureed in IU.


Hey - I am going to be a little less reserved with my assistance - must have caught these lads on a bad day! :wink:

First some background information. PED (performance enhancing drugs) are generally thought of as ace cards here - so (ideally) they are used when you reach a relatively high level and not before. This is fine as far as AAS go for you - you are experienced and developed it seems.

However, there is no reason you should use IGF anytime soon, AAS alone can make you a mountain, you either a) don't need to spend the money or b) should wait till nothing else works (or c] like many here - are not only a serious trainer, BB or PL but also experiment with the drugs).

I personally feel the same about GH - although as it is so popular many others do it very early on.

As for tren - above you suggested you would like to run that but no Test - in order to not only get the best from it but also keep certain sides to a minimum you will need a small amount of estrogen supplied too - which you would generally turn to an aromatising steroid to provide.

Firstly not only it is not necessary nor recommended to taper up the dosgaes in a cycle, your dose of Oxymetholone is far too high. Have you read that 150 is a decent dose or have you guessed at that one?
Use 50-100mg, with 100mg IME being significantly better than 50mg.

This is the low end of Tren these days - for one of two reasons - either underground lab Tren is better tolerated than Parabolan or we are simply a little less conservative these days than in the 80's. It is a good dose that will provide little in the way of sides - if you can tolerate any side effects that arise, then pushing upto 350mg gives noticeable improvements IME.

You already said you were not sure about adding Test, now you are using a dose that is significantly higher than you need (or will enjoy, with 150mg/day of drol! Breasts anyone?)
With 50-100mg Drol and 225-350mg Tren you would be looking at something like 500-750mg of Test to make that a 'real' cycle. I have a number more than 3 cycles under my belt and i rarely use that much Test. FYI.

Not bad - but 250iu has been shown to be ample in increasing Testosterone and while i am aware that the second pulse is around 4-5 days after the first injection, i personally think a little more frequent dosing is best - just 2x/wk is fine.. some use daily but for Teste stimulation i believe 2x/wk is ample..

If you are adding either Tren and test, Drol and Test or even JUST Test at 1000mg a week, then you will need a minimum of around 0.5mg ED IME. I personally need more - but there you go.

I have a horrible feeling you are talking about Insulin, and not IGF. They are very VERY different things (albeit similar in action to a degree).

If you are thinking about using Insulin at your level of experience with PED - think again. You don't need it!

You should be aware - as i am - that all these potent muscle builders will NOT make you into the body you want. It sadly doesn't work like that. They can help - but it STILL takes years, dedication, effort, discipline and sacrifice (for the changes i want it does anyway!).
Stacking all the GH, Slin and AAS in the world will not make you grow 24/7. You will grow when you want to grow... that said, this means that if you add 500-1500mg of AAS a week to your relatively natural physiology, your body will now have a surplus of this anabolic hormone exerting its effects and side effects which will remove a few of the restrictions you had genetically. This ALONE will get you to a level far beyond where you are... then add more/different things; in diet, training and pharmacology.



1) Assuming you are talking about tren acetate it is preferable to dose every day for steady blood level and minimization of sides. I would combine the test e and tren ace in the same syringe daily.

2) HCG is recommended at 250iu EOD.

3) Anastrazol - 0.5mg EOD might be enough, but maybe you want to start a 0.75 for the first couple of weeks to get blood level up and then titrate down or up as needed.

4) PCT - I would stick to Nolva alone for 4 weeks - W1:40mg/d W2:20mg/d W3:20mg/d W4:20mg/d


Guys thank you very musch for your reply,

Yes I meant Insulin not and HGH but after reading your comments I am thinking maybe I can stay away from those for now and get big with out those.

About TEST. I understand it is the best for adding muscle. Is there anything else that might replace it and will be as good. I know Deca is not the same but my body respond very well to it. No side affect at all.


Please let me know what do you think about Deca what will it be a good replacement for test E if there is anything else that I can replace TEST with that will increase muscle size as well.

and your thought about Insulin. does anyone has experience with that"?.

Thank you.


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