T Nation

Going to the Darkside... Well, Almost


I am 42 years old, and more than likely wont have kids. I competed for 25yrs as a drug free competitor. Competed for a few years in the WNBF until getting sick of it all and retired. In August of 2010 I was talking with a friend in Florida about TRT. He convinced me to get my blood tests done. So, after researching a few places for TRT, I got it done and got scheduled with a doctor. Below is a list of the more important levels

LH - 3.9
FSH - 2.9
Estradiol - 20.1
Total T - 387
SHBG - 45
Free Test - 30
IGF 1 - 193

I currently am only on 100mg of Test Cyp per week. VERY conservative doctor. My doc does not believe in doing the arimadex...I have not brought up the HcG thing to her yet. She says Chrysin should be just fine (eye roll). I started receiving my vials in oct/november. I did not start injecting until December (yes, pussy there...was scared of injections). Lately (past 2 months) my lower back has been breaking out more and more. The red angry acne. I shower twice a day, still doesnt take care of it. Another HRT doc says it is definitely the estrogen. Others disagree. I am considering going with another doc because he wants me doing arimadex with HCG (much like what is written in a sticky). In that thread, it talks about doing the Test 2x a week instead of once. Should I start doing the Test-C twice weekly at this point if I can get my hands on some arimadex? Or wait until I have some HcG as well?


What are the ranges for this lab?

E2 = 20.1 but what range?

Twice weekly T injections will help somewhat with E2 levels but probably not enough.

Get with the doc that wants you on an AI and hCG and take the consult that you read in the stickies here with you and discuss with him/her.

I changed my protocol based on KSman advice to twice weekly T, an AI on the same day and hCG EOD (and with my Docs permission) and I feel fantastic with no high E2 sides whatsoever, strong libido and really good sense of well being.



Yes, go with the other doc. Changing to 2x/week for the injections (50mg twice, not 100 twice!) will help too, but you will more than likely still need the AI. hCG is strongly recommended.


Krank, you can edit your original post and add the lab ranges. See lower RH corner.

You need more labs, including E2. Do not test LH/FSH.

Test PSA. See the lab work sticky and advice for new guys.

You should be injecting more frequency - unconditional.


Full report - pg1


Full Report pg2


Full report - pg3


Thyroid looks good!
Cholesterol is great!

When can you get labs done on your TRT?

How do you feel on your TRT?

"Another HRT doc says it is definitely the estrogen. Others disagree."
Referring to acne? Acne is a good sign in some regards.

Many do very well on 100mg T ester per week. But I would qualify that for 160 pounds BW.

Most need anastrozole to work right. You need labs, anastrozole is available one way or another.


I assumed I would be getting more labs done soon. She hasnt said anything. As far as how I feel on the TRT, I definetly experienced something similar to what you talked about in a sticky....the initial feeling of "gotta do everything in sight"....but as of late...meh. Sometimes I feel as though I dont hold much water....other times I look and wonder what the heck is going on and why I am not looking as lean as I should be.

The acne is embarrassing...like I said, its on my low back....as well as around the side of my glutes. The red angry deep kind. NEVER had that stuff before. Before the TRT I sat at about 205lbs and about 9 - 10%.....now, I fluctuate between 213 - 218 (depending on the prior day...cheat day, low calorie day, high carb day). How much do you trust getting the liquid dex from a 'research' chemical site?

I am doing your google earth method of finding another doctor....but I am generally not thrilled to pay for another "consult" fee with them when I know already what I should take...have labs...etc. I am a health professional as well, so I feel like saying "listen, cut me a break...I do know what I want, you dont need to re-exam...just look at my labs and do what needs to be done"

Oh, and strength and gym performance is pretty good....am definitely stronger in the gym


The acne is part of it, although in my experience it will subside once you get your levels evened out. I know mine flares up if something changes in regards to my hormones. I get it on my upper arms/shoulders primarily. And, like you said, they are the big mofos that hurt. I'm taking 2-3 showers a day, which helps. Also check into a topical cream for acne, I've been using that of late and it helps to dry them out.

I understand about finding another doc too - I'm on my third one in a year. If your current doc won't authorize more labs (which they should), you can always get them out of pocket. I think there is a link in one of the stickies.


I have done 3 - 4 different types of bodywashes for this....about to break down and go the Jesica Simpson route (no, not mom jeans...proactive)

Its not that she wont authorize...its just that there was no discussion or plan on when they would be done. I know with my patients I tell them that "in x weeks we will re-exam you..etc". She said that she uses a specific panel, so the one that I did wont be necessary. My thing is that I can get the arimadex through a "research chemical" site....but would feel more comfortable with a prescription.

I normally inject with 23's....in reading the stickies...there is the suggestion is for using 25's for injecting more frequently. Yesterday I used a 25....I have more of a tender spot on my VL than I do when using the 23. WTF is that all about??


Proactive works. At least it did for my teenager lol.

As far as the needles, I generally use a 23 wherever I stick (quads or glutes) but I got some 25s from the pharmacy last time I got my T filled. I tried them out a couple of times. They work fine, but you have to push like the dickens to get that oil in the muscle. And forget loading them - I use a 18 to draw.