[quote]Buoycall wrote:
Bouncers at the bar I go to pretty much end up using chokeholds or a good Nelson to take care of issues. I’ll grant that they’re mostly dealing with drunken frat boys, but the stuff works.
If you want to learn to handle people on the ground, either find a wrestling club, or some kind of MMA dojo to work out at. The place I’m at in Charlottesville has been fantastic . . .I’m learning a ton of stuff on the ground, and my striking has never been better[/quote]
Yup, chokeholds are another good bit of advice…risk of clots and death…hope you have a good lawyer…what are we making per hour? About $20 if you’re lucky? Yup, choke em out. lololololol.
i would say do the krav maga do the weights only for the confidence it will give you to be a good communicator if you are a good communicator it takes alot of the violence away pick your words better then you pick your set and reps scheme i work as a corrections officer and my mouth has got me out of doin alot of work that would be involved if i laid hands on out
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
I’ve been doing this for over a year now and I’ve successfully avoided anything serious. But again, I attribute this to the fact that I am dealing with beer drinkers that I have told the bar to stop serving if they get out of line anyways.
Unfortunately, management doesn’t see the same picture I do. They don’t really think that this is going to change anything. As such I’m only getting a second guy to work with on the weekends.
As far as learning Krav Maga or anything like that, I would like to get back into some sort of martial arts merely because I enjoy it, though I really don’t know if it would be a good idea to start literally kicking ass.
I know how to fight pretty well, but I think I need to be better at physically manhandling people as opposed to striking them. I guess that’s where my main question is. Am I lifting properly for this goal?
Mike[/quote]
Ahhh. I dig.
I worked at a place that started as a beer bar and got a full liquor license about a year and a half later. Honestly, I didn’t notice a difference in the number or severity of problems. In fact, I’d say I had more trouble with a beer drinking rugby team than the everyday liquor drunks.
As far as being able to manhandle someone, heavy deads and rows in the gym help. Also, I used to carry kegs instead of using the handtruck, sort of an extra workout, a couple times a week. I think that made a difference.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Lift4Life wrote:
Just some food for thought:
I suggest taking a street fighting class…something like Krav Maga (which revolves around simple and effective moves that were created for military use). It’s a type of self-defense with the philosphy of “kill that motherf|_|cker before he kills you!” I mean, every move in the classes I used to goto was a lethal one…it’s not about just defending yourself it’s about using extremely leathal, offensive, moves like elbows to the back of the head and neck/spine, throat punches, scratching, etc.
If I had the money, I’d still be going to the classes.
As far as a workout routine, I’d do something like a 3 day full-body. That way you will recover faster, still build great muscle, and you won’t have to throw in the towel if you get into a brawl because your legs are killing from doing 15 sets of leg work.
Yup, that’s the answer…hurt someone…hope your lawyer is good…hope you have a good lawyer.
[/quote]
Where I’m from, I’ve seen people get chocked out by bounces. Anyone who doesn’t know what that means, it’s when you chock someone until they passout.
To sum up my advice:
-HAVE GOOD JUDGEMENT (know when to do and when to do it)
-BE PREPARED (conditioning)
[quote]Lift4Life wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Lift4Life wrote:
Just some food for thought:
I suggest taking a street fighting class…something like Krav Maga (which revolves around simple and effective moves that were created for military use). It’s a type of self-defense with the philosphy of “kill that motherf|_|cker before he kills you!” I mean, every move in the classes I used to goto was a lethal one…it’s not about just defending yourself it’s about using extremely leathal, offensive, moves like elbows to the back of the head and neck/spine, throat punches, scratching, etc.
If I had the money, I’d still be going to the classes.
As far as a workout routine, I’d do something like a 3 day full-body. That way you will recover faster, still build great muscle, and you won’t have to throw in the towel if you get into a brawl because your legs are killing from doing 15 sets of leg work.
Yup, that’s the answer…hurt someone…hope your lawyer is good…hope you have a good lawyer.
Where I’m from, I’ve seen people get chocked out by bounces. Anyone who doesn’t know what that means, it’s when you chock someone until they passout.
To sum up my advice:
-HAVE GOOD JUDGEMENT (know when to do and when to do it)
-BE PREPARED (conditioning)[/quote]
WTF u talking about?? Just because you saw someone do it that means its good advice? C’mon. Most police departments outlawed the choke hold because of serious injury and fatalities. You think Joe Bouncer is going to get away with it? How many clubs YOU bounce at? How many times YOU been to court? Going to court for some dumbass at a club aint fun bro - especially when you maybe made 100 bucks that night. Wise up.
I choked a guy out once and was very scared. If he died on me, I’d be in big trouble.
In australia, legally you’re not supposed to touch anywhere around the neck at all. If you cut off the blood supply they’ll probably be okay, but if you cut off their air and then the air tubes swell they could die.
Wrist locks were the order of the day when things got really bad, like I said I only choked out 1 guy and was very worried. But it’s not about the fighting, it’s about avoiding the fight and getting people out safely.
I agree with a few people who have posted in here. I’m not sure that taking Krav Maga and learning to punch and elbow people in the face then rip out their throats is the wisest of ideas. Jiu-Jitsu can offer some good techniques to control but not permanently (or even semi-permanently) injure your opponent. But the best advice is, find a grisely old bouncer and ask him what he thinks.
Um, random question. How does a choke hold make someone pass out? Do you cut off blood circulation or air? How do you accomplish this?
I have a little brother who is much bigger than me (not for long, though, but our sibling rivalry is long over lol), and I spent about 10 years choking the shit out of him and that bastard never passed out. Was I just too weak or was it technique?
Listen man, this whole confusion comes from the fact that I suggested that he learn Krav Maga [by using sligthly glim and immature phrasing =D], and you dissargreed w/me, which I really don’t care for because you haven’t said anything negative about learning Krav Maga for self-defense (because that fact is, there is no harm in learning a street fighting technique). Not only did I suggest learning this street fighting technique, several other posts suggested he learn a street fighting technique of one form or another.
[quote]Lift4Life wrote:
Listen man, this whole confusion comes from the fact that I suggested that he learn Krav Maga [by using sligthly glim and immature phrasing =D], and you dissargreed w/me, which I really don’t care for because you haven’t said anything negative about learning Krav Maga for self-defense (because that fact is, there is no harm in learning a street fighting technique). Not only did I suggest learning this street fighting technique, several other posts suggested he learn a street fighting technique of one form or another.
'nough said.
[/quote]
Ya Krav would be good in this case, Its hard to spend little time on and then translate to the real world, But understanding Gun and knife defense will do one of 2 things! Help you defend yourself in these situations, or help you realize that you are not capable of defending yourself in this situation,
Fight or Flight!
Krav Maga is good,
FF
[quote]milktruck wrote:
Um, random question. How does a choke hold make someone pass out? Do you cut off blood circulation or air? How do you accomplish this?
I have a little brother who is much bigger than me (not for long, though, but our sibling rivalry is long over lol), and I spent about 10 years choking the shit out of him and that bastard never passed out. Was I just too weak or was it technique?[/quote]
You likely were not applying it right. It is very difficult to actually choke someone out with an air choke. You have to maintain it for a good deal of time. With a proper blood choke a person will pass out in about 10 seconds. Problem with a blood choke is that they are difficult to seat properly without a LOT of practice. I got a lot of experience practicing blood chokes in the Corps, but even then it was difficult to get it right when you needed it.
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
milktruck wrote:
Um, random question. How does a choke hold make someone pass out? Do you cut off blood circulation or air? How do you accomplish this?
I have a little brother who is much bigger than me (not for long, though, but our sibling rivalry is long over lol), and I spent about 10 years choking the shit out of him and that bastard never passed out. Was I just too weak or was it technique?
You likely were not applying it right. It is very difficult to actually choke someone out with an air choke. You have to maintain it for a good deal of time. With a proper blood choke a person will pass out in about 10 seconds. Problem with a blood choke is that they are difficult to seat properly without a LOT of practice. I got a lot of experience practicing blood chokes in the Corps, but even then it was difficult to get it right when you needed it.
Mike[/quote]
IN bjj we can getcha in about 3 to 5 seconds (RNC), In no way im a contradicting you though, but there are so many vairations of choking people it that your opertunities are endless!
Another Technic I would recomend a bouncer to learn!
As Bas Rutten says, if you mess with me and your drunk… you get choked out.
You mess with me and your sober… well you get knocked the fu$% out!!!
FF
[quote]FireFighter1046 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
milktruck wrote:
Um, random question. How does a choke hold make someone pass out? Do you cut off blood circulation or air? How do you accomplish this?
I have a little brother who is much bigger than me (not for long, though, but our sibling rivalry is long over lol), and I spent about 10 years choking the shit out of him and that bastard never passed out. Was I just too weak or was it technique?
You likely were not applying it right. It is very difficult to actually choke someone out with an air choke. You have to maintain it for a good deal of time. With a proper blood choke a person will pass out in about 10 seconds. Problem with a blood choke is that they are difficult to seat properly without a LOT of practice. I got a lot of experience practicing blood chokes in the Corps, but even then it was difficult to get it right when you needed it.
Mike
IN bjj we can getcha in about 3 to 5 seconds (RNC), In no way im a contradicting you though, but there are so many vairations of choking people it that your opertunities are endless!
Another Technic I would recomend a bouncer to learn!
As Bas Rutten says, if you mess with me and your drunk… you get choked out.
You mess with me and your sober… well you get knocked the fu$% out!!!
FF[/quote]
I certainly believe you. I just know that it has always taken a few seconds for me to seat the choke well and the other guy to tap. I have never literally knocked them out nor timed it so I’m assuming 10 seconds as a rather safe bet. I imagine done well, 3-5 seconds is a pretty accuate time.