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Going for Strength - 5x3

fuck it

[quote]bluefingas wrote:
That is basically what I’m currently doing.
Is there anything I’m doing wrong, or anything I should add.
I’m currently going for strength. Sorry if this sounds retarded.
[/quote]

Strength for what?

Powerlifting?
Olympic Weightlifting?
Strongman?

Can’t really judge your program if we have no idea what your goals are.

Basically vertical leap and running.

No rows? No presses? Essentially heavy Squats and Deads every other day?

Or is this just part of your program?

[quote]Modi wrote:
No rows? No presses? Essentially heavy Squats and Deads every other day?

Or is this just part of your program?[/quote]

This is just the lower body stuff.
But what would you suggest for upper body?

[quote]bluefingas wrote:
Modi wrote:
No rows? No presses? Essentially heavy Squats and Deads every other day?

Or is this just part of your program?

This is just the lower body stuff.
But what would you suggest for upper body?[/quote]

Rows and presses are probably a good idea. :wink:

[quote]bluefingas wrote:
Basically vertical leap and running.[/quote]

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/vertspeed_training_thread

BAM

Wait a minute…you’re trying to increase your vertical jump and running by doing heavy triples in the powerlifts three days a week??

Is this a joke?

If not, then check this out, it will work a lot better for you:

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles.html

[quote]ultimatethor wrote:
Wait a minute…you’re trying to increase your vertical jump and running by doing heavy triples in the powerlifts three days a week??

Is this a joke?

If not, then check this out, it will work a lot better for you:

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles.html
[/quote]

Sure, I’ll give it a shot.
Is there a spreadsheet to WS4SB3?

[quote]goochadamg wrote:
bluefingas wrote:
Modi wrote:
No rows? No presses? Essentially heavy Squats and Deads every other day?

Or is this just part of your program?

This is just the lower body stuff.
But what would you suggest for upper body?

Rows and presses are probably a good idea. :wink:

[/quote]

Hahah. Nice call.

I would train the upper body with a balance of Horizontal Pushes to Pulls and Vertical Pushes to Pulls. You could split it either way. One day of all Pushes and one day of all pulls, or one day in the Horizontal plane and one day in the vertical plane.

For the lower body stuff I would drop one of the heavy days for some Dynamic Effort stuff. Box Squats or Speed Deads.

I wouldn’t go as heavy on the Cleans, again working on trying to be as explosive as possible, with good technique.

This is coming from someone with a 6" vertical jump, so take it for what it’s worth, but if I were going to train for speed and vert, I wouldn’t just train legs super heavy all the time.

[quote]yusef wrote:
So rather than training legs super heavy, would you do speed work? And what rep range?

I have similar goals, been doing some single leg squats and box jumps, but sort of lacking structure. For box jumps its been 2 sets of 8 reps.[/quote]

No, I would still train them heavy one day, and train them explosively on another. But yes, I’d follow Westside principles. Anywhere from 8 sets of 3 to 12 sets of 2. Keep your rest to 60sec between sets. Use a weight that is around 50% of your 1RM and only increase the weight if you can keep the speed the same on all of your reps. You could add in bands once your comfortable with straight weight.

Alrighty, I read the WS4SB article and wrote the program the best I could, it looks like this.

Sunday: Max-Effort Lower Body
Box Squats- 8x3 (heavy)
Step Ups- 3x8 (heavy)
Romanian deadlifts- 3x8 (heavy)
Sprinter sit-ups, V-ups, toe touches, hip thrusts- 10-20 reps each/ 2-3 circuits

Tuesday: Max-Effort Upper Body
Thick bar or regular barbell bench press- 8x3 (heavy)
Incline DB bench press- 2x17
Barbell rows- 3x8
Face pulls- 3x8
Barbell shrugs- 3x15
Barbell curls- 3x15

Thursday: Dynamic-Effort Lower Body
Broad Jumps- 6x2
Bulgarian Split Squats(DB or barbell) front foot elevated(added ROM)- 3x10
45-degree hyperextensions- 3x10
Hanging leg raises- 4x12

Saturday: Repetition Upper Body
Barbell bench press (55-60% of 1RM)-3xmax or 4x12
Lat pulldowns- 3x10
Face pulls- 3x10
DB lateral raises- 4x10
Superset: 3 circuits
Behind the back barbell shrugs- 8-10 reps
Barbell curls- 8-10 reps
Thick bar or heavy DB holds- 2-3 sets/max time

Sooooo does that look right to you guys?
Anything else I should be doing?

[quote]bluefingas wrote:
Alrighty, I read the WS4SB article and wrote the program the best I could, it looks like this.

Sunday: Max-Effort Lower Body
Box Squats- 8x3 (heavy)
Step Ups- 3x8 (heavy)
Romanian deadlifts- 3x8 (heavy)
Sprinter sit-ups, V-ups, toe touches, hip thrusts- 10-20 reps each/ 2-3 circuits

Tuesday: Max-Effort Upper Body
Thick bar or regular barbell bench press- 8x3 (heavy)
Incline DB bench press- 2x17
Barbell rows- 3x8
Face pulls- 3x8
Barbell shrugs- 3x15
Barbell curls- 3x15

Thursday: Dynamic-Effort Lower Body
Broad Jumps- 6x2
Bulgarian Split Squats(DB or barbell) front foot elevated(added ROM)- 3x10
45-degree hyperextensions- 3x10
Hanging leg raises- 4x12

Saturday: Repetition Upper Body
Barbell bench press (55-60% of 1RM)-3xmax or 4x12
Lat pulldowns- 3x10
Face pulls- 3x10
DB lateral raises- 4x10
Superset: 3 circuits
Behind the back barbell shrugs- 8-10 reps
Barbell curls- 8-10 reps
Thick bar or heavy DB holds- 2-3 sets/max time

Sooooo does that look right to you guys?
Anything else I should be doing?[/quote]

It looks like you read the WS4SB III article?

If so, you shouldn’t be doing 8 sets of 3 (heavy) on your ME day. You just want to work up to one heavy triple that day. If you are a real skinny bastard, DeFranco suggests getting in 5 sets including your heaviest set. So if you were going to attempt 225x3, you might go 185x3, 195x3, 205x3, 215x3, 225x3.

I’ve never done WS4SB, but I did use the full Westside template for a couple of years, and had better luck working up to a heavy triple, and then backing off for a couple extra sets afterwards. So my progression would have looked like 185x3, 205x3, 225x3, 205x3, 205x3. My goal was to hit a 3RM (or 5RM, or 2RM, whatever the goal for the day), and then drop back to 90-95% of that weight and get 2-3 more sets at the same rep range.

Also, I didn’t see anywhere in WS4SB III where he mentions rotating ME exercises. I saw plenty of suggestions for ME exercises, but maybe I missed the part where he says you need to pick 3 or 4 exercises and rotate through them on a weekly basis. If you aren’t doing this, then there’s really no way that you will keep hitting 3RM PR’s on a weekly basis.

The only way to get around this, and now we aren’t really talking about the WS4SB template any more, would be to stay with the same movement, and work up to a 5RM on week 1, a 3RM on week 2 and a 1RM on week 3 before rotating to a second movement for the next three weeks. I’ve used this approach with 5/3/1 and 3/2/1 with good success in the past.

Anyways, just a couple of random thoughts there. Let me know if any of that made sense.

[quote]Modi wrote:
bluefingas wrote:
Alrighty, I read the WS4SB article and wrote the program the best I could, it looks like this.

Sunday: Max-Effort Lower Body
Box Squats- 8x3 (heavy)
Step Ups- 3x8 (heavy)
Romanian deadlifts- 3x8 (heavy)
Sprinter sit-ups, V-ups, toe touches, hip thrusts- 10-20 reps each/ 2-3 circuits

Tuesday: Max-Effort Upper Body
Thick bar or regular barbell bench press- 8x3 (heavy)
Incline DB bench press- 2x17
Barbell rows- 3x8
Face pulls- 3x8
Barbell shrugs- 3x15
Barbell curls- 3x15

Thursday: Dynamic-Effort Lower Body
Broad Jumps- 6x2
Bulgarian Split Squats(DB or barbell) front foot elevated(added ROM)- 3x10
45-degree hyperextensions- 3x10
Hanging leg raises- 4x12

Saturday: Repetition Upper Body
Barbell bench press (55-60% of 1RM)-3xmax or 4x12
Lat pulldowns- 3x10
Face pulls- 3x10
DB lateral raises- 4x10
Superset: 3 circuits
Behind the back barbell shrugs- 8-10 reps
Barbell curls- 8-10 reps
Thick bar or heavy DB holds- 2-3 sets/max time

Sooooo does that look right to you guys?
Anything else I should be doing?

It looks like you read the WS4SB III article?

If so, you shouldn’t be doing 8 sets of 3 (heavy) on your ME day. You just want to work up to one heavy triple that day. If you are a real skinny bastard, DeFranco suggests getting in 5 sets including your heaviest set. So if you were going to attempt 225x3, you might go 185x3, 195x3, 205x3, 215x3, 225x3.

I’ve never done WS4SB, but I did use the full Westside template for a couple of years, and had better luck working up to a heavy triple, and then backing off for a couple extra sets afterwards. So my progression would have looked like 185x3, 205x3, 225x3, 205x3, 205x3. My goal was to hit a 3RM (or 5RM, or 2RM, whatever the goal for the day), and then drop back to 90-95% of that weight and get 2-3 more sets at the same rep range.

Also, I didn’t see anywhere in WS4SB III where he mentions rotating ME exercises. I saw plenty of suggestions for ME exercises, but maybe I missed the part where he says you need to pick 3 or 4 exercises and rotate through them on a weekly basis. If you aren’t doing this, then there’s really no way that you will keep hitting 3RM PR’s on a weekly basis.

The only way to get around this, and now we aren’t really talking about the WS4SB template any more, would be to stay with the same movement, and work up to a 5RM on week 1, a 3RM on week 2 and a 1RM on week 3 before rotating to a second movement for the next three weeks. I’ve used this approach with 5/3/1 and 3/2/1 with good success in the past.

Anyways, just a couple of random thoughts there. Let me know if any of that made sense.[/quote]

Lol yeah, that made sense.
So over a three week cycle, I should be upping the weight and getting PR’s on ME days?
My bad if I misinterpreted.

[quote]ultimatethor wrote:
Wait a minute…you’re trying to increase your vertical jump and running by doing heavy triples in the powerlifts three days a week??

Is this a joke?

If not, then check this out, it will work a lot better for you:

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles.html
[/quote]

Im embarrassed for you that your wrote this (save the DeFranco link)

I think what your doing has a lot of merit. This a a viable off season program. Although depending on your strength your might be taxing your CNS a little much over time.

[quote]bluefingas wrote:
Lol yeah, that made sense.
So over a three week cycle, I should be upping the weight and getting PR’s on ME days?
My bad if I misinterpreted. [/quote]

Well, I think if you are following WS4SB, you would pick 3 different exercises (let’s say, Squat, Box Squat and DL), you go for a 3RM on Squat in Week 1, 3RM in Box Squat in week 2, and 3RM in DL on week 3 then go back to Squat and try to hit a new 3RM on week 4.

If you were to do what I have done in the past, you would go for a 5RM on Squat in week 1, increase the weight on week 2 and go for a 3RM on Squat, and then increase the weight again for week 3 and go for a 1RM. For the next 3 weeks you would move on to DL’s and do the same cycle. Just alternating between the two exercises.

Either way, you should always be striving to hit a weight PR on your ME movement. If you don’t, then your backup plan should be to hit a rep PR. If that fails, then you should at the very least walk out of the gym with a PR on one of your supplemental movements. If that doesn’t happen, it’s time to rethink your programming. :wink:

[quote]Modi wrote:
bluefingas wrote:
Lol yeah, that made sense.
So over a three week cycle, I should be upping the weight and getting PR’s on ME days?
My bad if I misinterpreted.

Well, I think if you are following WS4SB, you would pick 3 different exercises (let’s say, Squat, Box Squat and DL), you go for a 3RM on Squat in Week 1, 3RM in Box Squat in week 2, and 3RM in DL on week 3 then go back to Squat and try to hit a new 3RM on week 4.

If you were to do what I have done in the past, you would go for a 5RM on Squat in week 1, increase the weight on week 2 and go for a 3RM on Squat, and then increase the weight again for week 3 and go for a 1RM. For the next 3 weeks you would move on to DL’s and do the same cycle. Just alternating between the two exercises.

Either way, you should always be striving to hit a weight PR on your ME movement. If you don’t, then your backup plan should be to hit a rep PR. If that fails, then you should at the very least walk out of the gym with a PR on one of your supplemental movements. If that doesn’t happen, it’s time to rethink your programming. ;)[/quote]

If I don’t hit a pr on my heaviest lift that day, I will lower the weight slightly (10ish pounds?) and go for a volume PR with 1-2 more sets.

I notice that defranco never mentions percentages for box jumps unlike speed squats and such. Louie, however, does in one of his articles.

Does defranco just have his athletes try new jump pr’s everytime, or does he change the jump every week to avoid the speed barrier or whatever.

[quote]Invictica wrote:
bluefingas wrote:
Basically vertical leap and running.

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/vertspeed_training_thread

BAM[/quote]

You have a very appealing attitude. Your post in my thread “articles on oly lifting” is classic!

My advice for anyone who has an interest in improving power:

  1. Keep raising your max strength until you fucking die.

  2. Oly lifts is the answer for power development. I am a firm believer that box squats, or any type of DE westside stuff is reserved for PLers only! It’s just my opinion.

  3. Lighter bodyweight = faster sprinting speed, higher vertical jump, blah blah.