T Nation

God Interfering in Our Lives


A while ago there was a thread that involved Trib telling a story about how he was in a bad way and desperately needed a car and whammo he got a car. Then Bro Chris chimed in with a story about how he lost his keys so said a prayer and lo his keys were restored to him.

I was pretty shocked at the time. I didn't realize that people believed God was so directly involved in their lives - in the form of small miracles.

This whole idea makes me pretty ill and smacks of narcissism and self absorbtion/obsession. I also find it hard to believe that two intelligent men can claim that divine intervention was the most likely explanation in these scenarios.

Has God ever performed miracles for you? What about the times you prayed and didn't get what you were after? Did this prove the non existence of God or do you rationalize it in some vague way - works in mysterious ways/didn't really need it/faith was weak/learning a lesson/everything happens for a reason etc... How do you reconcile these petty miracles with the horrendous things that happen in the world that aren't deemed worthy of intervention (rape, assault, murder, starvation, accidental death/injury...)? It seems pretty arrogant to think God put a tenner in your pocket when 2 blocks away a woman was raped. What makes you so special?

Interested to hear thoughts/experiences etc...


too easy :slight_smile:


The biggest conflict is that they both believe in very different doctrines. Nonetheless, God continues to work for both of them. We can conclude either that God is not at work for either of them or, that God does not care about man's "doctrines".


I agree with you 100%. And, if I was you I would no doubt believe as you do!

It is very shocking at times and most of the time I don't equate events to G-d's direct intervention. However, there is some things in which there is no other explanation (Eucharistic Miracles, the blind man of John the Great, Resurrection, &c.) of their happenings.

On the evils in the world, there is a principal which needs to be established. That is G-d can prevent anything he wants, it would be infinitely easy for him to do so. Now...there is two different kinds of evils, moral evils (rape, murder, adultery, &c.) and natural evils (tornadoes, hurricane, earthquake, illness, &c.). G-d can allow or he can cause evil, he can't cause moral evil (moral evil is in which that goes against Divine Law, and since G-d himself is Divine Law it would be a contradiction for G-d to cause moral evil, and G-d cannot contradict himself as truth cannot contradict truth), but he can cause natural evils. G-d allows moral evils though, he does this for the greater good. As well, he can cause or allow (matters what school of thought you lean to) natural evils, as well, for the greater good.

It is hard to accept that G-d would allow evil for the greater good, but it is usually because people do not account for that G-d is omniscient he knows what is the greater good and what will lead to it. This as well has to be balanced with the knowledge that we have free will, so there is a sense of personal responsibility that is needed to be understood in this. The reason why we deem such things as killing someone as evil for men is because man does not know what will lead to the greater good. However, G-d knowing the greater good is fully capable of allowing evil for the greater good.

This is the reason why those who kill innocent children and claim that G-d told them to do it are not to be believed. This is because the one time that we know for sure that G-d commanded someone to kill an innocent person G-d then commanded him to stop and not do it.

However, if this is not convincing that G-d allows great evil for the greater good of man, look at the Crucifix. Deicide, the greatest of all evils was allowed for the salvation of the world.

I hope this is informative, if you have any questions or objections please let me know.


Yes. I believe we each make our own 'doctorines' that generally form our experience. They may be aligned with a religious doctorine or not. They may be pleasant or unpleasant. Either way, it's our own creation and the God Life Force lovingly goes along with it. I believe we all start with a blank page or clean slate that is good and filled with well-being. Then we write what we want in the form of beliefs, expectations, judgements, appreciations, loves, hates, etc. This may be a conscious or mostly unconscious process until we form the tapestry of our life.

However, having said that, sometimes there are 'outlier' experiences that cause us to say either WOW! or WTF?! I've had both. But since the original poster brought up miracles, my take is not so much that God decides to 'do' one for us, but what we aligned ourselves with receiving the well-being that is always already there. Or at the very least, don't prevent one with solid unbelief.

Brief example: I had a grandmother (90 y.o.) and an uncle (50 y.o.) with the same serious lung disease. Both were considered ultimately fatal by the doctors. My grandmother was in and out of hospitals and long-term care facilities -- but she had loving daughters visit her continuously. A Son-in-law became her advocate with the treatments & medications...continually challenging the doctors on what they were doing (like why is she on Alziemers med when she doesn't have Alziemers, etc.).

My uncle was married with 4 kids. His wife was/is a frantic loud-mouth - constantly complaining about everything (not that I blame her, it was a bad scene).

Everyone expected my grandmother to die and my uncle to ultimately pull through. Nope, other way around. Grandma pulled through, got home and is happily shuffling around to this day -- the miracle. Uncle passed away and left four kids, who take turns being yelled at by the loud-mouth wife (who would blame him for leaving) who picked up the payout of a generous insurance policy.

Just for your information, when 'the miracle' like Grandma's happened, the doctors claimed it was a misdiagnosis. 'Oh, she must not have really had the always fatal lung disease, it must have been something else that just looked like it' Whatever. Grandma was easily confused with medical jargon so she just tuned it out. She never wanted to hear it because she didn't understand it. She stayed in the present and appreciated and loved every visit she got. She was interested in and loved the nurses and therapists. She judged the doctors by their bedside manners, not by their knowledge or skills or what they had to say medically.

Unfortunately, my uncle had an overanalytical and burdened wife, who made no secret that she was overworked, underappreciated, stretched out, in the wrong hands medically. Constantly complaining, she chased away many helpful people with her acidity.

Now it makes perfect sense...that a 90 yo would get better and live and a 50 yo would give up and die. I think most all miracles are like that....always there....either allowed or not allowed.


On a more mundane level, many years ago I found myself in dire financial trouble. I literally did not have enough money to pay my monthly bills and I was very stressed about it. I mention this to my 'spiritual counselor' at the time, who flatly responded.... 'That's impossible.' He then proceeded to talk about something else and was obviously in no mood to discuss my bad situation any further. So over the next few days, I considered his strange response. Not really 'believing it' nor 'criticizing it', but just thinking about it....mulling it over occasionally.... remembering it.

I do a lot of math in my job and I am not prone to math errors. I had previously calculated my balance from different directions to check the math. But, when I finally sat back down to my checkbook and calculator to review how bad it was, I came to a different result......I had more than enough money to pay my bills. WTF?! It was like it had been there all the time. I was totally confused!

I could go on and on, but that's what I think miracles are....the revelation of good that been there all the time.


this is kinda like my post about Amputee Healings.

It cracks me up that in this age people still believe in such a mystic notion.

I've always said, if there is a god, he's one really fucking CRUEL S.O.B.


I guess everyone just has to prove it to themselves and experience it....or not.
One man's miracle isn't really going to do squat for the next guy.
Unless, of course, its something really spectacular.


It cracks me up that someone can be so illogical in this day to believe in such an atheist notion.

Current day Atheist don't even rise to atheism, they truly believe that G-d is a scientific question. At least the logical positive atheist said the question of G-d is irrelevant because it isn't a scientific question.

You have a problem with these ideas you put forth, because you get your information not from a scientist. But, from your favorite biologist, Richard Dawkins. Biology is little more than a branch of natural history. As Barrow says, "Biologists, have a limited, intuitive understanding of complexity. They're stuck with an inherited conflict from the nineteenth century, and are only interested in outcomes, in what wins out over others. But outcomes tell you almost nothing about the laws that govern the universe."