[quote]Arc_1mpuls3 wrote:
And I’d rather die at 70 as a hulking beast grandpa than at 80 and a frail old man.
[/quote]
Fuck yeah!
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Brant_Drake wrote:
Arc_1mpuls3 wrote:
And I’d rather die at 70 as a hulking beast grandpa than at 80 and a frail old man.
Fuck yeah!
Ha ha…you’re like 20 years old. So…70 is 50 years away. Nothing wrong with thinking what your thinking, I did too at 20, 21, 22…
By the way, has anyone ever seen a really big old man? Like 6’ 3" 6’ 4" 250+, By old I mean 70 something.
Big people tend to die younger I think. Just my own little theory…[/quote]
My grandpa was a gold gloves winner back in the day and is about 250. Granted most of that is fat now but he used to be freak’en ripped even in his 70’s the man was stronger than most people!
He’s 89 now and going strong even after: 1)being a boxer most of his life 2)being shot down in a B-17 during D-Day 3) having 2 metal knees and a plastic shoulder thanks to number 2. Haha long story short yes I have seen 70 yr olds still jacked with no steroids.
Alright, so the article seems to postulate that eating a vegetable based diet with little amounts of animal protein is superior to a diet that consists of large amounts of animal protein with (apparently) few vegetables. And what if you consistently ingest both? Didn’t see much mention of that.
It said that the Okinawans had enjoyed increased longevity, and then cited that they ate more vegetables, much more fruit, more fish (Omega 3s), and were more active than their American counterparts.
First, I don’t believe anyone on this site believes that not eating vegetables, fruit, consuming fish oil, and exercising will lead to better health. I’m sure most all of us eat as much of the above as we can. We just also happen to eat a lot of meat.
However, just because large amounts of animal proteins are absent from the Okinawan diet does not indicate that those proteins are the cause of the diseases, obesity, etc. that many American suffer.
In fact, I think it’s just as easy to point out that most Americans consume far more processed carbs than they do animal proteins, eat too few vegetables and fruits, eat very little fish and don’t supplement, and are almost entirely sedentary as the primary reasons for their health problems.
The absence of animal proteins does not implicate animal proteins as a decisive factor in light of what wasn’t accounted for in the study.
Shoddy interpretation of data.
We should ban this f’n Okinawans study from T-Nation. Theres way to many flaws.
Vegatarian diet, that includes fish?
“Compared to Americans, they consume twice as many vegetables and three times more fruit, but 10 times less meat, poultry and eggs.” If I eat 100 grams of meat a day your saying that they eat 10? Isn’t Vegatarian supposed to be 0.
Are we only comparing them to omnivores that don’t eat fruits and vegatables?
How many times are they going to say yeah they have a much more active lifestyle but its still because of their diet. How do they verify this?
Besides
I can live to 100 / no T-Bone
Live to 75 / lots of T-Bone priceless.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Just a couple of thoughts on this line.
First, if that were your only choice perhaps you’d choose 70. Then again if you were 65 years old or so you’d probably choose 80.
Second, what if your choice were to live to be 100 in good health, by having the proper diet and exercise plan, or die at 70 as a hulking beast?
I know…I know…you’d still pick 70. When you’re in your 20’s 70 is a very long way off.
[/quote]
To assume your current way of thinking is somehow superior to mine, just because you’ve lived slightly longer than your 20’s is kind of foolish. I don’t know why living to 80 or 100 is important to you. I won’t venture a guess.
I don’t care how long I live, I know I want to live my life to the fullest before my body becomes diminished in a significant capacity. That said, there is no way to know if I die at 70. Maybe it’ll be 65 or maybe it will be 75+.
The point is, I would rather live how I want to live, and not worry about staving death off, beyond exercising, and eating well enough to maintain my muscles. Which I think includes a fair amount of protein and veggies. If I spend my time worrying about death, how am I supposed to enjoy life?
[quote]Sabre T wrote:
Alright, so the article seems to postulate that eating a vegetable based diet with little amounts of animal protein is superior to a diet that consists of large amounts of animal protein with (apparently) few vegetables. And what if you consistently ingest both? Didn’t see much mention of that.
It said that the Okinawans had enjoyed increased longevity, and then cited that they ate more vegetables, much more fruit, more fish (Omega 3s), and were more active than their American counterparts.
First, I don’t believe anyone on this site believes that not eating vegetables, fruit, consuming fish oil, and exercising will lead to better health. I’m sure most all of us eat as much of the above as we can. We just also happen to eat a lot of meat.
However, just because large amounts of animal proteins are absent from the Okinawan diet does not indicate that those proteins are the cause of the diseases, obesity, etc. that many American suffer.
In fact, I think it’s just as easy to point out that most Americans consume far more processed carbs than they do animal proteins, eat too few vegetables and fruits, eat very little fish and don’t supplement, and are almost entirely sedentary as the primary reasons for their health problems.
The absence of animal proteins does not implicate animal proteins as a decisive factor in light of what wasn’t accounted for in the study.
Shoddy interpretation of data.[/quote]
/agree
I’m not sure it really fair to lump all red meat together as they do in the above studies.
It’s been shown that red meat from animals that grain fed verses grass fed. The grass fed has the ideal healthy fat ratios, much unlike the grain fed. So it is actually healthy provided you eat the right now.
Now finding good grass fed beef is a PAIN, almost no store sells it by me. Also, deer meat has almost not fat per 3oz but 37grams of protein. Just thought I would throw that in there as I took some out of the freezer and cooked it last night 
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Just a couple of thoughts on this line.
First, if that were your only choice perhaps you’d choose 70. Then again if you were 65 years old or so you’d probably choose 80.[/quote]
But you don’t choose. Better to do what you enjoy and damn the consequences. I know that sounds like a typical youngster response. But I have spent a lot of time contemplating death.
[quote]
My way of thinking is not superior to yours. We each have our own perspective on the age issue. Yours comes from someone in their early 20’s. And I’m suggesting that if you were closer to the age of 70 you might be thinking differently, unless of course you were suicidal. It’s funny every 70+ year old I’ve ever talked to, and I’ve talked to many of them, wants to live another day, week year etc…[/quote]
I am not going to deny that I want to live a long life. But I am becoming more and more jaded on what scientists tell me to do. And by following this “new thing” or that “new thing” is something that doesn’t interest me. I have a feeling what ever helps my body perform at its pinnacle, is good for it.
[quote]
I never said it was important to me specifically. My suggestion is that the closer you get to that age the more important it becomes. It only makes sense really. Let’s change paradigms, if someone asked you if you wanted to live to 40 what would you say? How about 35, or even 30?[/quote]
But you don’t choose. Yes I would like to live longer. But I would rather live shorter and fuller, than longer and miserable.
[quote]Do you want to die this year? No, probably not, so then you DO care how long you live. Why is that a bad thing? Is it not “t like” behavior to care about how long you live?
“Ugh…I want to die at 30 and fuck all the girls I can while lifting weights and…um fighting…”
Now, I’m not suggesting that this is your attitude, but some people think unless they espouse this type of thing that they are not manly enough.
Pretty stupid shit.[/quote]
I am indifferent towards death. I have conversations to have with those close to me who have passed on. I am not in a hurry to get there, but making it a concern to the point where I don’t enjoy my life because I think I will get another year of non-enjoyment then to hell with it.
[quote]
And back to my original point. If you were older, let’s say in your 60’s “staving off death” might just get a little more important than how much you can bench press. Priorities change along with your age. But don’t get me wrong there’s nothing wrong with how you’re thinking, or what you’re doing right now. [/quote]
Those are two separate correlations. I realize I will be diminished by age. What is important to me, may not be to you. So it would be hard for you to understand. I have my reasons.
[quote]
Do you spend time “worrying” about how much you can lift, or how big your biceps are? No, probably not, at least not much anyway. The point is you go to the gym and enjoy doing what you do, as do I. And as you get older you’ll still enjoy going to the gym. But you might just add a few things to your diet, or take a few things away, that will make you healthier which in turn could extend your life, and give you more time to do the things you like to do such as going to the gym. [/quote] The things I will add to my diet as I get older are steroids, and hopefully more grass fed beef.
Yes, I see your points. I had considered your points before this. I happen to see the world differently than you.
You are right, I wont be any more worried about these things. With exception to my training regime.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/article/3211/colon-cancer.html
Like I’ve said, I like red meat and I’m going to continue to eat it. But, I wouldn’t want anyone thinking that eating a large amount of red meat every day is actually good for your health. [/quote]
Now those are better studies. Chief concern seems to be the amount of saturated fat in the red meat, which makes sense. Though I don’t think the notion that too much saturated fat (from red meat or otherwise) is a bad thing is surprising to anyone. Alternating protein sources (red meat, chicken, eggs, fish) would seem the route to go…which again, probably isn’t new to many.
Good links though, thanks.
[quote]Arc_1mpuls3 wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
I am indifferent towards death.
Hey, I’m not trying to tick you off or anything but…BULLSHIT[/quote]
It’s been my observation that most young men have this bluster and bravado towards death. This whole “don’t fear the reaper” attitude BS that comes having lived a safe existence. When I was 16 I witnessed a close friend die basically because of bad luck(car accident cause by some drunk cooze that ran a stop sign).
I have another friend who lost both parents last year from a murder-suicide. I can tell you that neither of use are indifferent towards death.
I think I agree with Woody Allen when he said something like, “I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying.”
[quote]Wimpy wrote:
Arc_1mpuls3 wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
I am indifferent towards death.
Hey, I’m not trying to tick you off or anything but…BULLSHIT
It’s been my observation that most young men have this bluster and bravado towards death. This whole “don’t fear the reaper” attitude BS that comes having lived a safe existence. When I was 16 I witnessed a close friend die basically because of bad luck(car accident cause by some drunk cooze that ran a stop sign).
I have another friend who lost both parents last year from a murder-suicide. I can tell you that neither of use are indifferent towards death.
I think I agree with Woody Allen when he said something like, “I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying.” [/quote]
Do not get caught up in Mick’s nitpicking. It is not bravado to want to live life, and regardless of all that has happened around a person they are depressed or scared when they think otherwise. And yes when you’ve witnessed all kinds of violent or abhorrent deaths around you, naturally people will go into a depression which is why the first thing they like to recommend is counseling.
These guys are not asking for death by seeking to live their life. They are merely not letting fear of death control their lives. This is not something that only 20 years old do, the majority of people period prefer this.
After all one of the best ways to live longer is mimick those of an Asian Monk, but for anyone that has an inkling of a dream in their life what kind of life is this? In fact go to a hospital see how many people are told if they eat anymore redmeat they will die and they eat it anyway. Smoke anymore you’ll die and still smoke.
As for the original article posted. It looks like poor science to me (although that could mainly be the media interpretation). By poor science I am referring to the assumption that the difference between the two populations is determined primarily by food choices.
Unless the study somehow accounts for differences such as genetic background, environmental pollution, work preferences, alcohol consumption, smoking habits, and overall activity levels it is more of a “leap of faith”.
A stronger comparison of eating habits would likely be a comparison with the population of Japan as a whole.
Note this passage of the article:
I believe this passage raises more questions than the intent of the article answers. Researchers should be looking at the modern changes versus the traditional habits and comparing that to the overall Japanese population. This at least would control a significant amount of genetic and cultural factors (relating to longevity) which likely play a larger role than food choices.
[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
Brant_Drake wrote:
Arc_1mpuls3 wrote:
And I’d rather die at 70 as a hulking beast grandpa than at 80 and a frail old man.
Fuck yeah!
Ha ha…you’re like 20 years old. So…70 is 50 years away. Nothing wrong with thinking what your thinking, I did too at 20, 21, 22…
By the way, has anyone ever seen a really big old man? Like 6’ 3" 6’ 4" 250+, By old I mean 70 something.
Big people tend to die younger I think. Just my own little theory…
My grandpa was a gold gloves winner back in the day and is about 250. Granted most of that is fat now but he used to be freak’en ripped even in his 70’s the man was stronger than most people!
He’s 89 now and going strong even after: 1)being a boxer most of his life 2)being shot down in a B-17 during D-Day 3) having 2 metal knees and a plastic shoulder thanks to number 2. Haha long story short yes I have seen 70 yr olds still jacked with no steroids.[/quote]
Your Grandpa sounds like a badass… I mean a tough ole’ gentleman.