T Nation

GNC Employee Here

Yeah, it sucks. But I did get a free bottle of “Low-Carb” NO2 (yeah, its just half the pills for more than half as much) and a free bottle of Anavol (it’s creatine and glutamine in the akg form). I took those with some Cytodyne Zmass (which was pro-hormone) and got good results. I couldn’t really tell which product did what, but NO2 ran out first, and as much as I’d hate to admit it, my performance went down a little.

Anyways, any suggestions on something else to try? I’m 19, 6’2", 160lbs. Just looking to get big and strong. I’ve been planning on getting either MHP T-Bomb2 or their creatine supplement, as a fellow employee tried them and liked them.

Oh yeah, if you have questions about GNC, I give you the dirt.

This is a joke, right?

~Terumo

Psst. . .

Hey, bud. . .

I’ve got a hot tip on a wicked hot supplement. . .

You ready. . .

Here it comes. . .

Food. Lots of it.

If you read this site, you’ll find a lot of research regarding the waste of money that NO2 is. I too have heard LOTS of empirical evidence saying people have had incredible gains from it and major pumps. When I press further, usually, they can’t give me whether any strength gains were really there (i.e. charted workout logs), or whether it was really just a psychosomatic effect due to the huge tome that came with the NO2 extolling the myriad studies proving its worth.

If you have the opportunity to take NO2 again without any other supplements, any major changes in diet, constant sleep levels, etc. post results on the forum here.

As to my reasoning behind doubting NO2’s efficacy, here’s alink from this site:
http://t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459691

In regards to your question concerning supplements that work well, any biotest product I can assure you works well. Go ahead and try Mag-10’s Legacy formula before the prohormones get banned. I have personally used the regular MAG-10 and had FANTASTIC gains.

I’ve used Surge (when it was in stock) and I have used the old TRIBEX to help with aggression before MMA fights.

Power Drive is something I will probably use for the rest of my life (unless they make it more powerful) because of its role as a nootropic aid(grad school = pain), let alone the ways it increases drive/focus during workouts.

Speaking of which, I’m late for mine…

hahahaha.

you guys are good. really.

Are you trying to say there’s no point to supplements? With all the guys here that take different all sorts of shit? By the way, I’m a lot smarter than your average GNC employee. I’m just looking for some recomendations.

Maybe I’m missing something here. Anyone who might want to be helpful, feel free to answer.

I guess he was meaning a general base is better with proper nutrient intake. No one (especially on this site) can say that supplements are totally worthless.

Check out my post…

[quote]veruvius wrote:
hahahaha.

you guys are good. really.

Are you trying to say there’s no point to supplements? With all the guys here that take different all sorts of shit? By the way, I’m a lot smarter than your average GNC employee. I’m just looking for some recomendations.

Maybe I’m missing something here. Anyone who might want to be helpful, feel free to answer.[/quote]

I was just razzin’ you a bit, and only because you never once mentioned diet - I had to assume you might possibly be on the track of “I’ve gotta have a miracle pill.”

Just making sure you know that supplements work a lot better with proper diet and training.

All jokes aside, anything you find here in the Biotest line-up is amazing. If you’re looking to increase size and stregth, at your age (mine, too), I’d suggest Methoxy-7.

You could possibly opt for Alpha Male in conjuction with that, if you feel you could bring your Testosterone levels up a notch.

And, if you’re really set on going the prohormone route, then look into 4-AD-EC.

But, overall, I think you’d see great results from Methoxy-7 and/or Alpha Male.

Oh, and if you decide to give Alpha Male a whirl, I’d suggest adding in M to keep Estrogen levels in check.

Hope that helps - and you’ll quickly realize that there’s nothing better on the market than Biotest.

Im getting ready to begin taking muscle milk to help my current workout and was just wondering if this was the right choice for me or should i be taking something better that could possibly be more beneficial. Im a 5’9 202lbs high school lineman and am looking at supplements to take to prepare for next season. I know my diet is the most important part and am not expecting miracles just something to maximize my workouts. any input you have would be great, thanks
-dave

Which GNC do you work at? I’d like to come in and ask you what supplements I should buy from your competition at Vitamin Shoppe.

6’2" and 160 lbs???

Don’t waste your money on supps, you should EAT. Supps are only useful if your diet is in order, they CAN’T replace FOOD!

Maybe a multivitamin, creatin and some protein powder, wait with the other stuff.

[quote]theweakgeteaten wrote:
Im getting ready to begin taking muscle milk to help my current workout and was just wondering if this was the right choice for me or should i be taking something better that could possibly be more beneficial. Im a 5’9 202lbs high school lineman and am looking at supplements to take to prepare for next season. I know my diet is the most important part and am not expecting miracles just something to maximize my workouts. any input you have would be great, thanks
-dave[/quote]

Muscle Milk is just an MRP, so it should be looked as food more than a supplement. As a food, I wouldn’t expect anything special from it unless your diet is week. I don’t like the macronutrient blend in Muscle Milk personally.

My advise is to work on your diet, then worry about supplements. To many people put supplements before diet, which is a huge mistake.

[quote]veruvius wrote:
By the way, I’m a lot smarter than your average GNC employee.
[/quote]

This isn’t saying much, and based on your questions you still have much to learn. You’ve come to the right place, though. You can find everything you’d ever want to know about NO2, creatine, and many other supplements by just using the search engine.

[quote]Mr. Moose wrote:
6’2" and 160 lbs???

Don’t waste your money on supps, you should EAT. Supps are only useful if your diet is in order, they CAN’T replace FOOD!

Maybe a multivitamin, creatin and some protein powder, wait with the other stuff.[/quote]

I agree with this. At that weight, the last thing you need to be worrying about is anything other than figuring out how to eat enough to see gains in muscle mass and body weight.

Thanks for the replies. It’s hard to catch sarcasm on the internet, along with the fact some people just act like jerks.

Let me say I gained 15lbs in a month and a half by working out and drinking a half gallon of whole milk a day. This was a few summers ago. Right now I’m in college as a second year chemical engineer (that’s better than the average GNC employee). Not much time to work out or eat (though I did get the unlimited meal plan and eat 5-6 times a day when I can). The problem with just eating is I normally go in the weight room and just don’t have it. When I used those supplements(I’ll mostly credit the Anavol and the Zmass ZMA) I could do more. And my performance was consistently better than what it usually was. I can gain weight, but it takes work, and in the past, I have gotten sick or injured and lost what gains I made.

Dave2: Buy everything at vitamin shoppe for all I care. It’s usually cheaper, usually by a lot. I heard they are having financial issues though. So go put them back in business.

Oh yeah, when I talk about supplements, I know testosterone production peaks at my age, so I was mostly thinking about products other than pro-hormones, but I appreciate the advice. All I know is that I have friends who gain weight and strength more easily than me, and I can eat them under the table at a buffet. I was even made an honorary member of the fat club. True story.

[quote]atmosphere wrote:
Oh, and if you decide to give Alpha Male a whirl, I’d suggest adding in M to keep Estrogen levels in check.[/quote]

What is the reasoning for taking M every day even on the days when you cycle and don’t take Alpha Male?

Veruvis, do you keep a food log? Do you know what your maint calories are right now? What type of training regimen are you following?

It’s great that you are smart, but its really hard to tell someone what they need to do if you can’t tell what they are doing and what your goals are.

If you are getting in good workouts, using compound lifts, and you are eating well, the right amounts at the right times, and you are getting plenty of rest and recovery time, you should be fine.

If you do have the above in line, the first thing I would suggest you do is optimize your post workout nutrition. Try some Surge. Use the search engine on this site to read up on “The Post Workout Puzzle”. Also, get a serious MRP, such as Grow!

This would give you the most bang for your buck and take you very far in your quest for growth, strength, fat loss, definition or whatever it is you might be looking for. From there, what you might want would depend on where you were trying to go.

[quote]veruvius wrote:
Thanks for the replies. It’s hard to catch sarcasm on the internet, along with the fact some people just act like jerks.

Let me say I gained 15lbs in a month and a half by working out and drinking a half gallon of whole milk a day. This was a few summers ago. Right now I’m in college as a second year chemical engineer (that’s better than the average GNC employee). Not much time to work out or eat (though I did get the unlimited meal plan and eat 5-6 times a day when I can). The problem with just eating is I normally go in the weight room and just don’t have it. When I used those supplements(I’ll mostly credit the Anavol and the Zmass ZMA) I could do more. And my performance was consistently better than what it usually was. I can gain weight, but it takes work, and in the past, I have gotten sick or injured and lost what gains I made.

Dave2: Buy everything at vitamin shoppe for all I care. It’s usually cheaper, usually by a lot. I heard they are having financial issues though. So go put them back in business.

Oh yeah, when I talk about supplements, I know testosterone production peaks at my age, so I was mostly thinking about products other than pro-hormones, but I appreciate the advice. All I know is that I have friends who gain weight and strength more easily than me, and I can eat them under the table at a buffet. I was even made an honorary member of the fat club. True story.[/quote]

You are making some pretty lame excuses. I trained consistently through college as a biology major…taking as many as 19 hours a semester a few times. If you want it bad enough, you’ll do it. It has already been told to you. You start with your nutrition. If you aren’t making gains from your DIET, then you are lost in the first place.

You deserve a beating, just for admitting you work at GNC.

I will cut you some slack since you sound like you are new to the board.

We generally don’t plug OTHER companies supps on this board.

Not to be overbearing, I’ll give you a tip. Read everything in the archives written by John Berardi. Do a search for the Massive Eating Reloaded article. Following his advice will have you well on your way to meeting your fitness goals.

veruvius,

Please read TC’s article entitled Mad as Hell, then you will understand why some people are “being jerks.”

As far as supplements go, Grow! is a great MRP that can be used easily on the go.
If you don’t feel like you “have it” in the gym, then try some Surge, take 1/2 serving before you workout, 1/2 serving during, and 1 serving after your workout. Within 1-2 hours after the Surge have a Grow! with some additional carbs.

I would also look into an essential fats supp and/or fish oil.

Oh, and make sure that you eat breakfast everyday. To quote Coach Dan John “If you don’t eat breakfast, don’t even ask me about supplements.”

Biotest ZMA is dirt cheap and if it helped you before, then it would be a viable addition.

take care

[quote]Terumo wrote:
This is a joke, right?

~Terumo[/quote]

Yeah, I know I’m quoting myself. I was being an asshole, and yes, to an extent I was doing it intentionally. It is just that everything you said basically contradicted the ideals that most of us hold. For that, I apologize. I guess the daily grind makes me a bit testy at times. All that aside, let’s get to the heart of this issue:

First of all, you are getting close to falling into GNC’s proverbial “Vortex of Sheeping.” I worked at a GNC for six years–my last two years of high school and all four years of undergrad. I know how they work. PMs, handbills, Physical magazine, the damn coupons on Physical magazine. Most everything is a GNC bestseller is a bastardization of a good idea. CellTech, RTDs, Zantrex, Total Lean, Creatine Burst, Mega Whey, NO2–they are all originally good ideas, but they are all either missing crucial ingredienst or throwing in unnecessary ingredients to drive up the price. That is how supplement marketing usually works, and it works WELL. Getting to the point, let’s debunk some myths:

First of all, ZMass is not a prohormone. It is a ZMA supplement with some CNS depressants (for sleep aid).

Secondly, nitric oxide “stimulators” are not the key. Let’s just assume that they really do what they claim–promote the “perpetual pump.” So what? You swell up a little after your workout and keep it for longer? Contrary to what they want you to believe, this would do very little to truly enhance growth. Primarily, this is because total-body vasodilatation is not possible. When certain blood vessels dilate, others must constrict; this is governed by sympathetic and parasympathetic responses by the CNS. If the entire vascular system were to dilate in unison, blood pressure would drop drastically. Vascular structure would not permit this. Aside from all that, dilation does not promote growth, as it is non-nutritive. Unless the raw materials are present to construct proteinaceous tissue, it just is not going to happen. That thought brings me to my final recommendation:

You should invest your money in those things that truly give your body those precious materials required for constructing gains that are more permanent than a simple “pump.” I would recommend, in order, the following products for someone in your situation:

  1. A solid, all-purpose protein powder
    *Grow!
  2. A concentrated EFA supplement
    *MembersMark Omega3 and/or Udo’s Oil Blend
  3. A multiple vitamin
    *GNC Ultra Mega Gold w/out Iron
  4. Plain creatine monohydrate
    *ProLab, Labrada, or AST

And if the stuff comes back anytime soon, Biotest’s Surge is as solid of a post-workout drink as you can get.

Save the “new-fangled” ergogenic aids for after you have a strong nutritional base. You will thank yourself, and your wallet will be fatter.

~Terumo