GM vs RDL & DL Technique

[quote]Grey Area wrote:
Tried GMs today. They hurt my lower back, despite me being careful with technique and using a low weight, so I’ll stick with RDLs for the time being.

I also had great fun doing wide grip deadlifts! The problem with deadlifts is that when my back hurts/is sore, I’m not sure if this is muscular soreness, or something more serious.

[/quote]

GMs do take awhile to learn. I’m sure even the Westsiders would acknowledge that! However, as with any exercise don’t give up! Stick with the RDLs for awhile and check back in from time to time with the GMs, practicing with just the bar if necessary to learn the technique. None of this stuff happens overnight.

bigjoey - I checked that site out and as I thought I was going down too far with my GM’s. I always kept trying to go down to parallel, according to the site I should be stopping slightly above parallel.

kenmen,
If I came off with an attitude, good, that’s the effect I was going for. My “Multiple sets of shut-the-fuck-up” CS quote reflects the feeling I’ve had for a while now. I’m tired of people going from asking questions such as, "dudez, how do u get hooge fast? one week, becoming experts within a two week period and prescribing workout programs for the next jackalope who asks, ?dudez, how do u get hooge fast?.

My response wasn’t meant for the originator of the question, but for the person who responded that GMs are too dangerous to do. Laying on the couch too long without changing position is dangerous as well, and I can’t think of any exercises that couldn’t be modified to be dangerous.

The statement I made about Dreschler and Tate didn’t disagree with anything you said, it only expanded up on it. I didn’t clarify it enough, but I meant to state that although two movements can be similar, they might each be more specific to a particular sport, or different enough that they can be alternated within the Conjugate Method.

To end this response I would like you all to remember that weightlifting will make you muscle bound, and when you stop all those muscles will turn to fat. :wink:

Go Rick Go!

I’ve also found that the two exercises work differently. If I want to focus on lower back - GM. If I want to focus on hammies - RDL. They both belong in a program.

GM’s are great but I feel them in my hams more than low back. probably because I only do arched back with a med. wide stance. my back stays tight and rotation occurs at the hips stretching my hamstrings. lucky if I can walk right 2 days later. haha

Rob

GM’s allow for heavier load and thus in a Westside type program are more suited to being utilised as the main ME squat exercise whilst the RDL’s are great as a supplemental exercise to work on your hammies, at least like Mike the Bear thats where I primarily feel it. Doing both is the best bet.

When I started GM’s my lower back always hurt but nowadays I feel it more in my hammies.

[quote]creed wrote:
“GM’s allow for heavier load and thus in a Westside type program are more suited to being utilised as the main ME squat exercise whilst the RDL’s are great as a supplemental exercise to work on your hammies.”

I am going to disagree with you on that one. For an advanced lifter, GM’s are a solid ME exercise. For a novice lifter, I would recommend rotating them with rack pulls and rdl’s as the follow-up exercise to speed squatting. 3x5’s and 3x3’s work really well and will allow a person to learn the movement through repetition with moderate weight.

IMHO, a novice lifter needs to build up their work capacity and ability to strain in the core lifts and should spend alot more time on deadlift and squat variations for ME.

[quote]Grey Area wrote:
Tried GMs today. They hurt my lower back, despite me being careful with technique and using a low weight, so I’ll stick with RDLs for the time being.

I also had great fun doing wide grip deadlifts! The problem with deadlifts is that when my back hurts/is sore, I’m not sure if this is muscular soreness, or something more serious.

[/quote]

When you say you hurt my lower back…what do you mean here…did you herniate a disc and cant walk???..or are the muscles in your lower back sore??..if thats the case then i have hurt my back every time i have done gms for the past 5 years…not to be rude the reason the gms hurt your low back is becuase your low back is weak…giving up on gms will do nothing to change this…rb

Neither! I wasn’t using that heavy weights, but whilst performing the GMs I experienced a pain in my lower back. It didn’t feel like normal muscular pain, which is why I was concerned.

It sounds like you are just beginning to experiment with the Westside training method. I would just like to point out one thing. Don’t try to do much at the same time, specially with trying to incorporate Oly lifts and learning new moves at the same time.

Focus on training hard, getting your work capacity up and recovery.

Having said that, if you want to incorporate Oly lifts, try to do those on DE days. For instance, do power cleans on lower-body DE days and maybe push-press on upper-body DE days.

G

[quote]Grey Area wrote:
Hmmmm… as you pointed out, Dave Tate seems quite keen on GMs! Therefore, by argumentum ad verecundiam, they must be good! Well, actually, they do seem pretty effective, so hopefully I’ll see decent results from them. When you said you lift 105, is that pounds or kilos? As I’ve never tried them, I’m not sure what kind of weights I’ll be able to lift safely. I’ll start with the bar and see what feels comfortable to begin with.

I’m keen on trying out cleans, mainly because they look fun, but also because they appear to be good for developing power. However, I’m not sure where they’d fit in to the Westside for skinny bastards programme that I’m following at the moment. Where would be the most suitable place to substitute them in?

Thanks[/quote]

i dont know why all these people are sayin gm’s hit the lower back more than the hammies. If you push your but backwards before you go down it stresses your hamstring more than your lower back.

[quote]Tungsten wrote:
Fox69!

Om my god, have you actually read anything about good morning??? There are a lot of us doing GM but we practice SAFETY. It’s one of main exercises for westside template because it’s the one of the better back builders! It’s only dangerous when you don’t know how to do it!
[/quote]

Yes I have. I have read views both for and against. I have done it. I agree with you that it possible to do safely and productively, but this doesn’t exclude alternatives. Also (and correct me if I am wrong) but Westside tends to be favoured by weightlifting oriented trainees ie power-lifters, Olympic lifters and throwers. As I stated, the GM seems to be beneficial for that kind of sport and training.

[quote]
As for GM vs RDL vs DL, they just work differently. GM seems to place more emphasis on the spine errectors, RDL more on hammies, DL more overall but EXTREMELY CNS taxing if done heavy lifting so we don’t do them that often. I usually alternate GM,DL and Squat for main exercises. RDL is more of accessory exercise for squat days.[/quote]

OK having read a bit more about the RDL, you should really have picked me up on my incorrect assessment of what the RDL is.

Anyway, other posts in this thread seem to either support the GM or view it less favourably. So I guess if it helps your sport and you can do it productively and safely then do it, if it hurts or feels wrong for you there are alternatives.

I’ll shut the fukup now…

[quote]Rick Jakubowski wrote:
Best exercise for teenagers and newbies: Multiple sets of shut-the-fuck-up.
[/quote]

damn dude this had me rolling at work. awesome quote, by far one of the best i’ve read hear in t-mag. they should put it in the “Strong Words” section. keep them coming. laters pk

the torque arm and the center of gravity are different for these excercises thus the difference in feel and affect from them. When you change foot and hand spacing you also change these variables. I think using a foot spacing as you would in your given sport or lift would have a higher carry over of strength and function. laters pk

After checking pics on elitefts, I realised I didn’t push my hips back enough last time I tried GMs. I was using double the weight today with no problems.