Global Warming, Bought & Paid For

[quote]orion wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Very interesting.

Damn, now we have to turn to the other 89,546 scientists.

That are all paid to shill for GW otherwise they would be in a different line of work.

Hmmm so ALL scientsts lying about global warming for cash. There’s clearly no lie you won’t tell.

I believe it was you that claimed all skeptical scientists did it because they were paid off by oil money. You have proven yourself incapable of civil discourse so I am am not going to waste any more time on you.

Me thinks you’re confused/ or perhaps me?

IF you’re saying that the 99.999999% of all scientists who realize there is global warming are getting paid—then you’re lying or crazy.

if you’re not saying that—then apologies.

What these scientists actually said in the last ICC report is that there is a climate change and that there is a 60% chance that we influence it to some unknown degree.

They also said that there is no empirical proof or even a theory on how we influence the climate exactly.

Meanwhile, according to Bjorn Lomborg, we could save 36000 malaria victims with the money spent on saving one climate change related death.

In the end we have bigger, more serious problems that we can adress NOW.

[/quote]

Bingo.

Of course it creates more buzz and is easier to politicize than malaria.

I hope the Dems run on a platform that has Global Warming as a cornerstone.

I also hope they propose taxing carbon use and eliminating mortgage deductions for homes that are too large and inefficient. Please let them do this before the 2008 election.

I don’t have a stake in it either way. I’ve looked at some evidence of it and it seems rather compelling.

Then when I think of it, what do the people claiming there is global warming have to gain from it?

What do the people claiming there is not global warming have to gain from it?

The answers to those two questions, to me, will give you the answer about who has their agenda at hand. I also find it funny that there is a dem/rep side to it. It shouldn’t be political stakes, it should be science. The answer to those two questions above also provide a huge insight to what the truth really is.

What’s the answer to 99 out of 100 questions? Money.

[quote]100meters wrote:
lucasa wrote:
100meters wrote:

(Improve the economy)

This is absurd. Taxes and legislation to place an overemphasis on underdeveloped, inefficient, or non-existent technologies? They are environmental policies, not economic policies.

So it doesn’t matter that the 5 guys who get paid to say there is no global warming are all funded by big oil but it does matter if 1 out of all other scientists (except for 5 fake ones) is funded by Soros?

Do you ever even think about what you’re posting?

First, no one person “in Exxon’s pocket” got as much as Hansen got. As a matter of fact, if you added all five up (no matter which five individuals you’re thinking about) they didn’t get near the amount of what Hansen got.

Second, you said the last time this topic came up it was 60 oil-drenched dissenters, which you refused to name. Suddenly, it’s five to one? What happened to the vast majority and scientific consensus? Not to mention that the “one” is a pioneer in the field of what is now vast consensus and dissents with the vast consensus on top of it all.

I’m pretty convinced you haven’t thought a lick about what you’ve been posting.

What has been the economic impact of the towns/cities/states that have implemented Kyoto on their own? (hint:positive)

also:

You’re confused:

Hansen is one scientist “getting money from soros(why does this matter)”, but all other scientists also know there is global warming and aren’t getting “paid by soros”.

Yes there are 60 fake dissenters, maybe 5 or 6 are the same “scientists” always pointed out in the MSM.

And Soros is a guy that just happens to understand global warming exists, the exact same belief that Big oil companies have, but big oil pays people to lie about it. Little bit of a difference.

[/quote]

Hansen was saying, in 1975, that we were entering another Ice Age. He’s a top dog in all the environmentalist GW movement. Now, he’s being paid by Soros?

I’m happy he’s getting rich but hurting things like the air conditioning business (Freon) or making shuttle crews use ‘environmentally-friendly’ materials that break off and eventually kill them…not a good idea.

[quote]Fitnessdiva wrote:
I don’t have a stake in it either way. I’ve looked at some evidence of it and it seems rather compelling.

Then when I think of it, what do the people claiming there is global warming have to gain from it?
[/quote]
Money and power.

Money and power.

The problem is the issue has become so politicized and over hyped it is hard to figure out the truth.

If some bacteria population is growing or shrinking because the climate is going through “normal” fluctuations no one cares.

If a researcher mentions global warming in his paper he attracts attention and hopefully funding.

[quote]100meters wrote:

What has been the economic impact of the towns/cities/states that have implemented Kyoto on their own? (hint:positive)[/quote]

GW zealotry and mysticism at it’s finest, combine meaningless distinction between local and global phenomenon with poor metrics of largely abstract phenomenon and bam! Magic. No municipality larger than .5M people has ‘met Kyoto’ without merely exporting it’s carbon emissions.

And I say ‘met Kyoto’ and ‘compliant’ because it’s a global policy to combat a global phenomenon. How much did each municipality spend ‘meeting Kyoto’? And how much has it lowered global CO2 emissions? (i.e. actually meet Kyoto)

So, care to throw up any actual data or, once again, are we expected to swallow the Holy Word of global warming? (Hint: Science isn’t about hinting, it’s about demonstrating. Hints are speculation, politicians and debaters hint.)

WTF is a fake dissenter? Presumably if there are fake dissenters, there are fake consenters or no? Given that there’s more money to be made consenting vs. dissenting, would logic dictate that there are more or more highly paid consenters?

Soros and the UNFCCC have paid scientists to believe in global warming, Exxon paid them to be skeptics. Usually in science, skepticism is favored over belief in order to avoid zealotry. The difference is that Soros and the UNFCCC have shelled out nearly 10X the amount of money Exxon has while producing no relatively viable product or solution (as opposed to Exxon, BP, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, etc.).

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
If a researcher mentions global warming in his paper he attracts attention and hopefully funding.
[/quote]

Bingo! It all comes down to getting a project continually FUNDED.

Isn’t this a problem on BOTH sides of the argument? Are you arguing the Pro-global warming hippie crowd has 9:1 more money to spend than the industry anti-Global Warming crowd?

And saying Global Warming is the Dems 9/11 is a big pile of BS. Only Gore thinks it’s an important issue.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Isn’t this a problem on BOTH sides of the argument? Are you arguing the Pro-global warming hippie crowd has 9:1 more money to spend than the industry anti-Global Warming crowd?
…[/quote]

Yes and yes. (I am not sure of the exact figure but it dwarfs industy spending)

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Isn’t this a problem on BOTH sides of the argument? Are you arguing the Pro-global warming hippie crowd has 9:1 more money to spend than the industry anti-Global Warming crowd?

Yes and yes. (I am not sure of the exact figure but it dwarfs industy spending)[/quote]

Where in the hell is the money coming from? And are you talking about funding, or actual profit-spending, like the gas companies have done?

Links maybe?

[quote]Arc_1mpuls3 wrote:
Wasn’t the earth more tropical millions of years ago? I could have sworn the earth was covered?

“Climates were warm, with no evidence of glaciation. As in the Triassic, there was apparently no land near either pole, and no extensive ice caps existed.”

I took that quote from wikipedia on the jurassic period. I think we have an impact in the speed at which it’s happening, but I don’t think that the recession of ice caps is neccessarily unnatural. [/quote]

The Earth’s climate has changed and varied often in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

One of the current concern is with the rate of change. Warming that used to occur over centuries or millennia occurring in years and decades. Other concerns are what could happen if the equatorial region of the globe becomes inhospitable to man (too warm) or that a rapid increase in desertification could lead to a food crisis.

The crux of the problem is that, if GW is A) a real serious issue and B) something we can actually do something about, then it has to be done globally. It’s not enough for the US to do it’s part if China and India aren’t on board. It’s even sillier to see protesters here in Canada, where if we were to reduce our emissions to zero, we’d cut a massive 3% of global emissions.

I don’t see this happening, ever. There is too much international competition between the countries, and no one wants to give an inch of advantage to the other. So we’ll (or maybe our kids will) find out if letting rampant GW occur was a good idea.

I don’t have a stake in it either way. I’ve looked at some evidence of it and it seems rather compelling.

Hey Diva, did you find the research online? If so would you mind posting a link?

[quote]orion wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Very interesting.

Damn, now we have to turn to the other 89,546 scientists.

That are all paid to shill for GW otherwise they would be in a different line of work.

Hmmm so ALL scientsts lying about global warming for cash. There’s clearly no lie you won’t tell.

I believe it was you that claimed all skeptical scientists did it because they were paid off by oil money. You have proven yourself incapable of civil discourse so I am am not going to waste any more time on you.

Me thinks you’re confused/ or perhaps me?

IF you’re saying that the 99.999999% of all scientists who realize there is global warming are getting paid—then you’re lying or crazy.

if you’re not saying that—then apologies.

What these scientists actually said in the last ICC report is that there is a climate change and that there is a 60% chance that we influence it to some unknown degree.

They also said that there is no empirical proof or even a theory on how we influence the climate exactly.

Meanwhile, according to Bjorn Lomborg, we could save 36000 malaria victims with the money spent on saving one climate change related death.

In the end we have bigger, more serious problems that we can adress NOW.

[/quote]

Uhmm…You mean MORE THAN a 90% (very likely) that we are the cause of “most” global warming.
http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf

Bjorn never seems to understand mulitasking.

[quote]lucasa wrote:
100meters wrote:

What has been the economic impact of the towns/cities/states that have implemented Kyoto on their own? (hint:positive)

GW zealotry and mysticism at it’s finest, combine meaningless distinction between local and global phenomenon with poor metrics of largely abstract phenomenon and bam! Magic. No municipality larger than .5M people has ‘met Kyoto’ without merely exporting it’s carbon emissions.

And I say ‘met Kyoto’ and ‘compliant’ because it’s a global policy to combat a global phenomenon. How much did each municipality spend ‘meeting Kyoto’? And how much has it lowered global CO2 emissions? (i.e. actually meet Kyoto)

So, care to throw up any actual data or, once again, are we expected to swallow the Holy Word of global warming? (Hint: Science isn’t about hinting, it’s about demonstrating. Hints are speculation, politicians and debaters hint.)

Hansen is one scientist “getting money from soros(why does this matter)”, but all other scientists also know there is global warming and aren’t getting “paid by soros”. Yes there are 60 fake dissenters, maybe 5 or 6 are the same “scientists” always pointed out in the MSM.

WTF is a fake dissenter? Presumably if there are fake dissenters, there are fake consenters or no? Given that there’s more money to be made consenting vs. dissenting, would logic dictate that there are more or more highly paid consenters?

And Soros is a guy that just happens to understand global warming exists, the exact same belief that Big oil companies have, but big oil pays people to lie about it. Little bit of a difference.

Soros and the UNFCCC have paid scientists to believe in global warming, Exxon paid them to be skeptics. Usually in science, skepticism is favored over belief in order to avoid zealotry. The difference is that Soros and the UNFCCC have shelled out nearly 10X the amount of money Exxon has while producing no relatively viable product or solution (as opposed to Exxon, BP, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, etc.).[/quote]

Fake dissenter: they know they are lying.
The Big Oil companies know there is global warming, but also choose to lie about it. That’s kind of fake.

[quote]hedo wrote:
I hope the Dems run on a platform that has Global Warming as a cornerstone.

I also hope they propose taxing carbon use and eliminating mortgage deductions for homes that are too large and inefficient. Please let them do this before the 2008 election.[/quote]

Santorum!!!

[quote]pparris wrote:
I don’t have a stake in it either way.[/quote]

Really? Must be cool to have an off-planet cottage to live in.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Isn’t this a problem on BOTH sides of the argument? Are you arguing the Pro-global warming hippie crowd has 9:1 more money to spend than the industry anti-Global Warming crowd?

Yes and yes. (I am not sure of the exact figure but it dwarfs industy spending)

Where in the hell is the money coming from? And are you talking about funding, or actual profit-spending, like the gas companies have done?

Links maybe?[/quote]

Government spending.

The authors find that government funding of research has corrupted the scientific process as scientists compete for funding in a politically charged envi-ronment. Total federal spending on global climate change research has ballooned from a few million dollars to $2.1 billion annually in the last 15 years

http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v22n3/warming-journal.html

[quote]100meters wrote:
orion wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Very interesting.

Damn, now we have to turn to the other 89,546 scientists.

That are all paid to shill for GW otherwise they would be in a different line of work.

Hmmm so ALL scientsts lying about global warming for cash. There’s clearly no lie you won’t tell.

I believe it was you that claimed all skeptical scientists did it because they were paid off by oil money. You have proven yourself incapable of civil discourse so I am am not going to waste any more time on you.

Me thinks you’re confused/ or perhaps me?

IF you’re saying that the 99.999999% of all scientists who realize there is global warming are getting paid—then you’re lying or crazy.

if you’re not saying that—then apologies.

What these scientists actually said in the last ICC report is that there is a climate change and that there is a 60% chance that we influence it to some unknown degree.

They also said that there is no empirical proof or even a theory on how we influence the climate exactly.

Meanwhile, according to Bjorn Lomborg, we could save 36000 malaria victims with the money spent on saving one climate change related death.

In the end we have bigger, more serious problems that we can adress NOW.

Uhmm…You mean MORE THAN a 90% (very likely) that we are the cause of “most” global warming.
http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf

Bjorn never seems to understand mulitasking.[/quote]

But he understands opportunity costs.

Resources are scarce and you cannot spend them twice.

What is it? Global warming or malaria? GW or HIV? GW or clear drinking water for everyone?

This are the things people are dying from, not GW.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Isn’t this a problem on BOTH sides of the argument? Are you arguing the Pro-global warming hippie crowd has 9:1 more money to spend than the industry anti-Global Warming crowd?

Yes and yes. (I am not sure of the exact figure but it dwarfs industy spending)

Where in the hell is the money coming from? And are you talking about funding, or actual profit-spending, like the gas companies have done?

Links maybe?

Government spending.

The authors find that government funding of research has corrupted the scientific process as scientists compete for funding in a politically charged envi-ronment. Total federal spending on global climate change research has ballooned from a few million dollars to $2.1 billion annually in the last 15 years

http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v22n3/warming-journal.html[/quote]

The authors hilariously funded by Big Oil(hundreds of thousands of dollars), but yeah otherwise very credible, except not credible if judged for honesty or accuracy.

Review excerpt from American Scientist:
The Satanic Gases is an altogether different beast. Patrick Michaels and Robert Balling
are professional atmospheric scientists, and the dust jacket of their book states that their
scientific studies support their claim that global warming predictions are “simply wrong.”
The book does not fulfill this claim. Errors in scientific statements are numerous,
misleading logic is used, and much of the “evidence” presented is from earlier, now
superseded, studies.

Minor scientific errors are common: The authors claim the earth
radiates in visible wavelengths; they refer to gamma rays as “thermonuclear signals”; a
thunderstorm is said to collapse when it “literally runs out of air”; ozone is said to break
down to OH; and so on.

They make even more errors when describing policy matters and attempting to disparage
various mainstream scientists. A scientist with whom the authors disagree is likely to be
labeled “federal scientist” or “federal employee,” even when he or she is a university
professor, apparently in the belief that the term “federal” is pejorative. The 1997 Kyoto
Protocol, the agreement to make a small start on greenhouse gas reductions, is repeatedly
criticized, even though the authors’ description of the agreement suggests they have not read the text.

They claim that this treaty allows the United Nations “to invoke whatever
penalty it might choose upon those who do not meet their commitments.” No such
provision occurs in this treaty, nor is it likely that a group of sovereign countries would
delegate such powers to the UN.
A sad aspect of this book is the effort throughout to prove that other scientists are
scientifically dishonest.

Climate modelers are accused of hiding the deficiencies of their
models, when in fact modelers fairly meticulously list the ways in which their models fail to perform and the approximations made in creating a model. Those who choose to
describe a variety of scenarios rather than using one uncertain guess are said to be
employing “politicized fairy tales.”
The most egregious example of a personal attack is a quote taken out of context and
altered to distort its meaning.

The quotation is taken from a published interview with a
well-known scientist in which he discusses problems faced by climate scientists when
talking to congressional committees and the press. In the interview he points out that one
is obligated to give the whole truth, with the caveats–the ifs, ands, and buts. As human
beings, though, he observes, we want to see the world become a better place, to draw
attention to a potentially serious problem, so we feel a pull to use colorful metaphors and
dramatic examples.

This leads to an ethical bind. He concludes that “Each of us has to
decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that
means being both.” Michaels and Balling omit the phrase “I hope that means being both,”
saying only that the scientist has said that "he has to choose ‘the right balance between
being effective and being honest’ about global warming. "

This book cannot be recommended, either as a contribution to public understanding of the
current status of climate change science or as a helpful description of the current
international negotiations searching for a consensus on how and on what time scale the
world should begin the process of reducing emissions of climate-changing gases.

Also note federal funding not the same as funded by Big Oil obviously.

[quote]100meters wrote:
…Also note federal funding not the same as funded by Big Oil obviously.
[/quote]

Are you saying government spending is less than big oil?

Do you have a point or are your just trying to deflect?

If you have accurate numbers post them.