Giving TBT a Try

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
Funny… I was just looking up some CW stuff yesterday… but the Waterbury method and 10 x 3 is what caught my eye.[/quote]

That is funny.

One thing I got form reading on the other stuff, and I don’t know if TBT is the same, but shorter rest periods are important to develop the appropriate level of “chronic fatigue.” In fact, one of the forms of progression is just to reduce rest… one thing to look out for w/ a CW program.

What I’m doing now (not CW) is working, so I’m going to stick with it, but I’m interested to hear how your experience goes.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’ll be the first to say that’s a lot of squatting and deadlifting… [/quote]

Yes, but as mentioned above, it is different squats and deads with different reps and sets.

just do it as is. You should enjoy it. I did.

After 8 weeks, I did a burner set (a la v-diet workout) on Saturdays. That was my favourite.

[quote]JFG wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’ll be the first to say that’s a lot of squatting and deadlifting… [/quote]

Yes, but as mentioned above, it is different squats and deads with different reps and sets.

just do it as is. You should enjoy it. I did.

After 8 weeks, I did a burner set (a la v-diet workout) on Saturdays. That was my favourite.[/quote]

I’ll do it as written. I tried the first workout yesterday and it was definitely refreshing. We’ll see how that carries over in the coming weeks/months.

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Also, drop bench dips. Parallel dips are fine but bench dips carry far more risk to the shoulder than you will ever get out of them in size and strength. [/quote]

Hey Ecchastang,

I’m curious what risks you’re talking about? I assume it’s a shoulder issue. The reason I ask is I’ve done bench dips in the past for highish reps (25+) and never had any issues.

Thanks,
Chris

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Also, drop bench dips. Parallel dips are fine but bench dips carry far more risk to the shoulder than you will ever get out of them in size and strength. [/quote]

Hey Ecchastang,

I’m curious what risks you’re talking about? I assume it’s a shoulder issue. The reason I ask is I’ve done bench dips in the past for highish reps (25+) and never had any issues.

Thanks,
Chris [/quote]
For shoulder impingement, bench dips are about the worst position you can put your shoulder in. Even though it is less bodyweight used compared to parallel dips, it is way more dangerous. If you have perfect shoulders, then you can probably get away with it, but most lifters don’t.

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Also, drop bench dips. Parallel dips are fine but bench dips carry far more risk to the shoulder than you will ever get out of them in size and strength. [/quote]

Hey Ecchastang,

I’m curious what risks you’re talking about? I assume it’s a shoulder issue. The reason I ask is I’ve done bench dips in the past for highish reps (25+) and never had any issues.

Thanks,
Chris [/quote]
For shoulder impingement, bench dips are about the worst position you can put your shoulder in. Even though it is less bodyweight used compared to parallel dips, it is way more dangerous. If you have perfect shoulders, then you can probably get away with it, but most lifters don’t. [/quote]

Interesting, I figured it was something along those lines. Thanks for the input!

Quick report in:

Day’s 1 & 2 went pretty well. Day 1 I was a little too conservative on all the exercises. Day 2 was the opposite. I probably pushed the deadlifts a bit too hard having never done 3x8 on deads before. I ended up going lighter on the remaining exercises (pussed out and skipped squats) due to the unexpected fatigue. I’ve made some notes to adjust next week, although, I think I’ll be fine to use the same weight on deads next week.

I’m logging my progress if anyone wants to follow:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_log/a_little_bit_leaner_and_even_meaner_usmc

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I ended up going lighter on the remaining exercises (pussed out and skipped squats) due to the unexpected fatigue. I’ve made some notes to adjust next week, although, I think I’ll be fine to use the same weight on deads next week.[/quote]
There’s definitely a feeling out stage to get your bearings in terms of how hard to go in each session, but you’ll sort that out quick enough. It also gets a little tricky guesstimating the high rep stuff if you haven’t worked in that range recently.

With full body training (or really any kind of high frequency work), recovery is key and workout nutrition is a big part of that. Since you’re hitting a bodypart/movement and then hitting it again 48 hours later, you want to make sure you’re doing everything you can to minimize DOMS (like you experienced firsthand) and perform optimally in each workout.

I took a quick look at your log and even if you want to drop some fat, make sure you’re definitely still using some kind of peri-workout nutrition to get the most out of the training.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Quick report in:

Day’s 1 & 2 went pretty well. Day 1 I was a little too conservative on all the exercises. Day 2 was the opposite. I probably pushed the deadlifts a bit too hard having never done 3x8 on deads before. I ended up going lighter on the remaining exercises (pussed out and skipped squats) due to the unexpected fatigue. I’ve made some notes to adjust next week, although, I think I’ll be fine to use the same weight on deads next week.

I’m logging my progress if anyone wants to follow:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_log/a_little_bit_leaner_and_even_meaner_usmc

[/quote]

I have just recently quit TBT training. Going to try a PPL split for a month or two. I learned very quickly that, whether mental or physical, squats at the end of the session were a no go for me. I had to be mentally fresh or I would fail miserably. The inverse did not hold true for my presses, rows or deads after squats. I understand the logic, discussed a lot in GSLP, but it just did not work for me. Just something to think about.

Second thought: I got basically nothing out of Overhead squats. I didn’t like them for TBT because they fatigue to many extra muscles that you will need later and you end up unable to push those movements as thoroughly as you would like. Beyond light work for mobility/warmup, I don’t think that OHS have any real usefulness that isn’t better served by Front or Olympic squats.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I ended up going lighter on the remaining exercises (pussed out and skipped squats) due to the unexpected fatigue. I’ve made some notes to adjust next week, although, I think I’ll be fine to use the same weight on deads next week.[/quote]
There’s definitely a feeling out stage to get your bearings in terms of how hard to go in each session, but you’ll sort that out quick enough. It also gets a little tricky guesstimating the high rep stuff if you haven’t worked in that range recently.

With full body training (or really any kind of high frequency work), recovery is key and workout nutrition is a big part of that. Since you’re hitting a bodypart/movement and then hitting it again 48 hours later, you want to make sure you’re doing everything you can to minimize DOMS (like you experienced firsthand) and perform optimally in each workout.

I took a quick look at your log and even if you want to drop some fat, make sure you’re definitely still using some kind of peri-workout nutrition to get the most out of the training.[/quote]

Thanks Chris.

I have some Plazma I can work back in and will probably move to SWF now that it’s back in stock.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Second thought: I got basically nothing out of Overhead squats. I didn’t like them for TBT because they fatigue to many extra muscles that you will need later and you end up unable to push those movements as thoroughly as you would like. Beyond light work for mobility/warmup, I don’t think that OHS have any real usefulness that isn’t better served by Front or Olympic squats.[/quote]

I was really just trying to incorporate another squat variation other than front & back. I have a little bit of OHS experience, but not much.

I’ll think about switching it out, thanks!

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Quick report in:

Day’s 1 & 2 went pretty well. Day 1 I was a little too conservative on all the exercises. Day 2 was the opposite. I probably pushed the deadlifts a bit too hard having never done 3x8 on deads before. I ended up going lighter on the remaining exercises (pussed out and skipped squats) due to the unexpected fatigue. I’ve made some notes to adjust next week, although, I think I’ll be fine to use the same weight on deads next week.

I’m logging my progress if anyone wants to follow:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_log/a_little_bit_leaner_and_even_meaner_usmc

[/quote]

I have just recently quit TBT training. Going to try a PPL split for a month or two. I learned very quickly that, whether mental or physical, squats at the end of the session were a no go for me. I had to be mentally fresh or I would fail miserably. The inverse did not hold true for my presses, rows or deads after squats. I understand the logic, discussed a lot in GSLP, but it just did not work for me. Just something to think about.
[/quote]

Appreciate it and I can definitely understand the sentiment.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Second thought: I got basically nothing out of Overhead squats. I didn’t like them for TBT because they fatigue to many extra muscles that you will need later and you end up unable to push those movements as thoroughly as you would like. Beyond light work for mobility/warmup, I don’t think that OHS have any real usefulness that isn’t better served by Front or Olympic squats.[/quote]

I was really just trying to incorporate another squat variation other than front & back. I have a little bit of OHS experience, but not much.

I’ll think about switching it out, thanks! [/quote]

This is just personal experience so take it with a grain of salt when I was trying to use several different types of squats there were a few three squat rotations that I liked. Front/Manta Ray Hi bar/Power squat was a good one, Pause squat/Squat from Pins/Power squat was really good one and probably the best strength developer and Front Squat/Box Squat/Power Squat was my personal favorite as it seemed to make my joints happier while boosting my strength. I did use them in more of a SS only 3 or 4 exercise rotation so they will obviously be different for you.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Second thought: I got basically nothing out of Overhead squats. I didn’t like them for TBT because they fatigue to many extra muscles that you will need later and you end up unable to push those movements as thoroughly as you would like. Beyond light work for mobility/warmup, I don’t think that OHS have any real usefulness that isn’t better served by Front or Olympic squats.[/quote]

I was really just trying to incorporate another squat variation other than front & back. I have a little bit of OHS experience, but not much.

I’ll think about switching it out, thanks! [/quote]

This is just personal experience so take it with a grain of salt when I was trying to use several different types of squats there were a few three squat rotations that I liked. Front/Manta Ray Hi bar/Power squat was a good one, Pause squat/Squat from Pins/Power squat was really good one and probably the best strength developer and Front Squat/Box Squat/Power Squat was my personal favorite as it seemed to make my joints happier while boosting my strength. I did use them in more of a SS only 3 or 4 exercise rotation so they will obviously be different for you. [/quote]

Appreciate the list. I use to box squat quite a bit I might mix that in.

Thanks!

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I have some Plazma I can work back in and will probably move to SWF now that it’s back in stock.[/quote]
Either of those should definitely help, yep.

Lunges or any lunge variation would work as technically a “squat variation”. They’d probably fit best in for moderate rep work so you don’t have to load them heavy or trudge through crazy high reps on each leg (a time killer).

Also, I just noticed, CW’s original program has the volume increase at Week Three (adding one set to everything), and then the set/rep scheme changes again on Week Five (and then an extra in Week Seven). Are you doing that as well? In the first post’s pic, it doesn’t look like it. In addition to alternating straight sets and supersets weekly, the added volume would be a way to progress.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I have some Plazma I can work back in and will probably move to SWF now that it’s back in stock.[/quote]
Either of those should definitely help, yep.

Lunges or any lunge variation would work as technically a “squat variation”. They’d probably fit best in for moderate rep work so you don’t have to load them heavy or trudge through crazy high reps on each leg (a time killer).

Also, I just noticed, CW’s original program has the volume increase at Week Three (adding one set to everything), and then the set/rep scheme changes again on Week Five (and then an extra in Week Seven). Are you doing that as well? In the first post’s pic, it doesn’t look like it. In addition to alternating straight sets and supersets weekly, the added volume would be a way to progress.[/quote]

Lunges might be a good choice actually. I very well might do that.

I did not notice the volume increase. Thanks for point that out! I’ll adjust my plan.

Rest periods also change. I’m really glad you pointed that out Chris!