Girls Can't Be Altar Servers

So, my diocese and a Parish I attend a few times a month recently decided no girls allowed. So, please commence with how the Catholic Church is misogynist.

[quote]Girls no longer will be allowed as altar servers during Mass at the cathedral of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix, SS. Simon and Jude.

The Rev. John Lankeit, rector of the cathedral, said he made the decision in hopes of promoting the priesthood for males and other religious vocations, such as becoming a nun, for females.

Made up primarily of fifth- through eighth-graders the altar-server corps in American churches has included girls since 1983 in many places. Girls and boys regularly serve together at churches throughout the Phoenix Catholic Diocese.

Read more: Help Center - The Arizona Republic [/quote]

Seems unreasonable to me. I don’t know about misogynist, but unless there are just droves of boys waiting to be alter servers that are not allowed to because the roles are so taken up by girls, I don’t see it having any impact whatsoever on vocations to the priesthood. In fact, even if that is the case, I don’t see this.

Sorry for the girls who wanted to or enjoyed serving during Mass.

I didn’t realize rectors had the authority to make changes like this on a local level. Aren’t all Catholic churches considered under the Pope’s authority, and subject to Vatican law and policies?

[quote]forlife wrote:
I didn’t realize rectors had the authority to make changes like this on a local level. Aren’t all Catholic churches considered under the Pope’s authority, and subject to Vatican law and policies?[/quote]

The pastor’s of churches can make decisions about their own church’s practices, so long as they don’t contradict the Holy See. Though, I don’t know why BC chose to post this. One asshole pastor makes a bad decision isn’t really news. It just means that one pastor is an asshole. People hate Catholics enough, we don’t have to out every little mistake to add fuel to the fire.

As far as the church authority structure. Yes, all churches are subject to the dogma of the Holy See, but the bishop, as prescribed by scripture do have pretty broad authority over their dioceses. For instance, say you went to the bishop and said, “I am gay, but I want to be Catholic and participate in the sacraments”. If here declared it ok for you to receive the sacraments, then you could.
An example of what a bishop could not do for instance, would be to get rid of the Eucharist, or stop reading scripture during mass, or authorize people to break from the church or to allow self appointed clergy to be clergy…You know, like Sinaed O’conner one day arbitrarily declared herself a priest in the Catholic Church? A bishop could not recognize that.

[quote]forlife wrote:
I didn’t realize rectors had the authority to make changes like this on a local level. Aren’t all Catholic churches considered under the Pope’s authority, and subject to Vatican law and policies?[/quote]

Vatican law…think you mean Canon Law.

And, Bishops have authority to make changes like this, and Bishop Olmsted gave the Rector control of this Cathedral as he’s the Bishop and has a lot on his plate.

My parish that I go to during the school year started boys only altar servers at the center I frequent (with some good results) and the priest that runs the center is best friends with Father Paul (as in lived next door to him for 18 years, went to college and seminary together). Coincidence?

[quote]pat wrote:
One asshole pastor makes a bad decision isn’t really news.[/quote]

Why is he an asshole?

Here is a Catholic priest’s commentary on the move:

More commentary on a commentary of the decision [commentary in brackets]:

[quote]The 1994 statement permitting girl servers was a mistaken tactical retreat which led to a fall in priestly vocations. It?s time to withdraw it

Undoing the damage will take time: the sooner the Church starts to clear up the mess, the better

By William Oddie

The rector of the Catholic Cathedral of Phoenix, Arizona, has decided that girls will no longer be allowed as altar servers (though they will continue elsewhere in the diocese). [For links… here. NB: the decision in Phoenix is sparking meaningful conversation across the globe.] His reason is simple: he thinks that an all-male sanctuary promotes vocations to the priesthood. ?The connection between serving at the altar and priesthood is historic,? he says: ?it is part of the differentiation between boys and girls, as Christ established the priesthood by choosing men. Serving at the altar is a specifically priestly act.? I?m not sure, to be pedantic, that that?s entirely orthodox (in the context of the Mass, only the priest himself performs specifically priestly acts), but one knows exactly what he means: what the server does is intimately related to the Eucharistic action and can be seen as an intrinsic part of it: the server is a kind of extension of the priest himself; if there were no servers, the priest would do what they do. According to Fr Lankeit, 80 to 95 percent of priests served as altar boys.

The question is, why shouldn?t that happen when there are also girl servers? There are two reasons: firstly because the causal link between servers and priestly vocations is weakened if some or most of the servers in the sanctuary are excluded from it. But secondly because as soon as girls appear, the supply of altar boys tends simply to dry up.

The first time this occurred to me was in the house of friends with whom I was staying in France. One of the guests at dinner one evening was Archbishop André Vingt-Trois of Tours (now Cardinal Archbishop of Paris). The subject of conversation at one point was the way in which, in the local Parish Church, presumably in an attempt to involve women in the celebration of the Mass, not only were all the readers women but so also were all the servers girls; my wife (not I) compared it to a farmyard, with the priest as the cock strutting about in the middle of a flock of hens. Archbishop Vingt-Trois said that the priest may have had no choice over the all-girls serving team: ?Once the girls arrive, he said, the boys disappear: you can?t see them for dust? (his explanation was much more graphic in French). And he was adamant that though there were, of course other factors contributing to the decline in priestly vocations, the decline in the number of all-male sanctuaries was certainly one of them.

I suspect, though there?s no way to prove this, that many if not most Catholics, once they think about it, will have the feeling that this is either obviously true, or at the very least a plausible hypothesis. For what it?s worth, the US website Catholic Answers carried out a poll in which they asked the question ?does having girl altar boys help with vocations to the priesthood??

The answers were as follows:

YES, Girl Altar Boys help Vocations To The Priesthood: 2.98%
NO, Girl Altar Boys don?t Help Vocations To The Priesthood: 64.29%
Girl Altar Boys, Have No Effect At All On Vocations To The Priesthood: 32.74%
Voters: 168

It?s a pretty small sample, of course: but I would be surprised if it?s not true that almost nobody thinks that girl servers help vocations to the priesthood, that of the remainder, about two thirds think it doesn?t help, and another third thinks it makes no difference. If the question had been asked differently: if the question had been ?does an all-male sanctuary foster vocations to the priesthood??, I suspect that more than that two thirds would have replied ?yes?, since historically it has observably done so. In the US, only one diocese now restricts serving at the altar to boys and men, Lincoln, Nebraska, and it is apparently the case that vocations there are higher than elsewhere.[/quote]

Read more: Should the infamous “altar girl” decision be reversed? Wm. Oddie opines. WDTPRS POLLS included. | Fr. Z's Blog

Within the context of PWI…who cares? This kind of stuff should easily be in the off-topic forum.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
One asshole pastor makes a bad decision isn’t really news.[/quote]

Why is he an asshole?[/quote]

Girls had the honor of serving as alter servers and he took that away from them for no reason. This idea that it would bump up vocations is retarded.

I really don’t think anyone who isn’t Catholic cares about something like this. If Catholic women and girls take offence, there may be fewer Catholics. But really, why would any non Catholic care?

Unless the response you are attempting to troll for is something along the lines of… ohhh… the pastor is simply looking for more boys to molest. Evil Catholic paedophiles.

Sorry to go here but maybe this particular priest is a gay pedophile herding his flock for easy picking?

I mean it’s not like the Catholic church has a clean dick in this matter.

[quote]Christine wrote:
I really don’t think anyone who isn’t Catholic cares about something like this. If Catholic women and girls take offence, there may be fewer Catholics. But really, why would any non Catholic care?

Unless the response you are attempting to troll for is something along the lines of… ohhh… the pastor is simply looking for more boys to molest. Evil Catholic paedophiles.[/quote]

You beat me by as long as it took to type my post.

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
I really don’t think anyone who isn’t Catholic cares about something like this. If Catholic women and girls take offence, there may be fewer Catholics. But really, why would any non Catholic care?

Unless the response you are attempting to troll for is something along the lines of… ohhh… the pastor is simply looking for more boys to molest. Evil Catholic paedophiles.[/quote]

You beat me by as long as it took to type my post.
[/quote]

That was funny.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
I didn’t realize rectors had the authority to make changes like this on a local level. Aren’t all Catholic churches considered under the Pope’s authority, and subject to Vatican law and policies?[/quote]

The pastor’s of churches can make decisions about their own church’s practices, so long as they don’t contradict the Holy See. Though, I don’t know why BC chose to post this. One asshole pastor makes a bad decision isn’t really news. It just means that one pastor is an asshole. People hate Catholics enough, we don’t have to out every little mistake to add fuel to the fire.

As far as the church authority structure. Yes, all churches are subject to the dogma of the Holy See, but the bishop, as prescribed by scripture do have pretty broad authority over their dioceses. For instance, say you went to the bishop and said, “I am gay, but I want to be Catholic and participate in the sacraments”. If here declared it ok for you to receive the sacraments, then you could.
An example of what a bishop could not do for instance, would be to get rid of the Eucharist, or stop reading scripture during mass, or authorize people to break from the church or to allow self appointed clergy to be clergy…You know, like Sinaed O’conner one day arbitrarily declared herself a priest in the Catholic Church? A bishop could not recognize that.[/quote]

I guess it’s a fine line. If the bishop is stating that he wants to give boys more of an opportunity that’s one thing, but if he’s stating that doctrinally, god doesn’t sanction girls serving at his altar, that would seem to be heretically contradictory to canon law.

[quote]Christine wrote:

Unless the response you are attempting to troll for is something along the lines of… ohhh… the pastor is simply looking for more boys to molest. Evil Catholic paedophiles.[/quote]

Not to worry, you gleefully made sure that one got in there.

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
I really don’t think anyone who isn’t Catholic cares about something like this. If Catholic women and girls take offence, there may be fewer Catholics. But really, why would any non Catholic care?

Unless the response you are attempting to troll for is something along the lines of… ohhh… the pastor is simply looking for more boys to molest. Evil Catholic paedophiles.[/quote]

You beat me by as long as it took to type my post.
[/quote]

That was funny. [/quote]

Funny indeed. I remember you now I believe. You have a different avatar but your sass is still the same. Good to see your still posting.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

Unless the response you are attempting to troll for is something along the lines of… ohhh… the pastor is simply looking for more boys to molest. Evil Catholic paedophiles.[/quote]

Not to worry, you gleefully made sure that one got in there. [/quote]

Not the only one. But I’m pretty sure that my post was obvious sarcasm. I honestly don’t care and I think that the Church is embarrassed by the past offences and is attempting to change this image.

I am an atheist, but I don’t think that just because religion can be dangerous all religions are dangerous.

But upon further thought, couldn’t anyone who is a part of this specific congregation simply transfer to a new church if they don’t agree with this new rule? I know we have several Catholic churches in my town.

I did that shit when I was a kid. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.

[quote]belligerent wrote:
I did that shit when I was a kid. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.[/quote]
Well how gay was it?