T Nation

GH and Carbohydrates


#1

Growth Hormone (GH), which is drastically increased via exercise, is suppressed by carbohydrate ingestion.

CT recommends carbs preworkout which potentially block GH release, but clearly CT's recommendations improve performance and MPS so what gives?

I know carbs are important for fuel, and that hypoglycemia is detrimental to performance, but carbs can be consumed 3+ hours prior to a workout to avoid the GH blunt, or so it would seem.

No carbs within the 3-5 hour preworkout period boosts GH, and exercise would further boost GH. GH appears (from my research) to promote accute insulin resistance while the increased level of GH is circulating (at rest), but exercise stimulates non-insulin dependent muscle glucose uptake post exercise. Therefore post workout or 30 minutes into the workout (the point at which GH is substantially increased) would be a good time to take a product like Surge.

So based on my research, or confusion/delusion, it would appear that if a trainer wants to maximize the benefits of GH, the best approach would not be in line with the new protocol, or any protocol involving preworkout carbs taken less than 3-5 hours prior to a session, but then carbs (amount of carbs unknown) can be taken 30 minutes or so (not sooner) into a workout when GH is elevated.

Am I wrong about something here? I'm not really prepared to try any protocol like this, but I'm just presenting it for feedback. Perhaps I misunderstood the research I read that showed that the gradual reduction in GH caused by carbohydrates. Perhaps this reduction can be overcome with the effects of exercise, but I'm unsure.


#2

I think you're missing a lot here.

First you underestimate the type of carbs. The rice oligodextrin and the isomaltulose are slow carbs with the lowest GI, which means that your insulin levels won't rise.

Second 10min before the workout you'll spike your insulin levels which will transport all the good stuff you've took before, and by opening the "doors" to the cells insulin is being used, so it will drop to some level.

Third when training your body will release more hormones (catecholamines and glucagon) which will prevent the further spiking of insulin, while insulin will still be present, but not at high level. As you know you need insulin to take advantage of the GH.

Fourth you are forgetting about the Alpha GPC which will help producing more GH after the workout.

I think this is the main idea of the protocol, CT isn't talking about "any" carbs at "any" time. There is a lot of timing and other supplements, which you're totally underestimating. :slightly_smiling:


#3

Just a thought......but why ever eat carbs than? Why ever compromise GH output by eating carbs? I mean, their the devil right? In fact, why not fast? Fasting also leads to a great GH output. But oh wait, that wouldn't work well, would it?

Look, Im not trying to be snappy (really, Im not) but I think the "hormonal output" by exercise is grossly over rated. Who cares of you have a temporary blunt of GH? There are far more important things to consider, such as total caloric intake, exercise, muscle mass, and even other hormones. GH is just one part of the equation.


#4

Starvation/fasting causes the largest GH level, do you see anybody getting big and muscular by fasting?

The hormonal (as well as the nervous and immune) systems is WAY more complex than a simple "if x happen than y occurs".


#5

Im by no means an expert on the physiology of the body during exercise, but if Im not mistaken one should be worried about GH levels post workout, and not during workouts. The period of rest after a workout is when muscle is built, and thus when you would want growth hormone to be elevated since it increases protein synthesis.


#6

Thanks for the response.

Of course no one is ripped and muscular by fasting, but there's a dozen good ways to boost GH and that's not one of the methods I proposed.

I understand that the hormonal systems are quite complicated, and thus the reason I asked if I was missing something. No way do I believe that carbs are evil or anything like that. Further, I know hormones do not work like "if x happen than y occurs," but this is why I phrased the question the way I did. I was looking for clarification to the phrase...

So can you elucidate this?


#7

Have you been living under a rock for the last few years? IF (intermittent fasting) have been proving to be a great way to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. Martin Berkhan (a IF promotor and fitness expert) have been having great results with clients using a protocol of 12-16 hour fasting and a 12-8 hour feeding window.

Some pictures of Berkhan (talks it like he walks it); http://leangains.blogspot.com/2009/10/some-pics.html

Client results; http://leangains.blogspot.com/search/label/Client%20results


#8

So basically, not eating while they are asleep and then eating when awake. It's so crazy that it just might work.


#9

Are you sleeping for 12-16 hours? Well, good luck friend.

Most people fast for 16hours on IF and that's where the best results is too. The fast is broken with a pre-workout meal. Think workouts is suffering because of the fast?
Well, have a look at Berkhan doing deadlift with 600lbs x3;


#10

Damn. You can't deny how impressive that video is.

Oh, and yeah, I've heard of the fasting idea before, but never gave it much though. I'll have to read up on it.


#11

Synergys wrote:
"Most people fast for 16hours on IF and that's where the best results is too. The fast is broken with a pre-workout meal. Think workouts is suffering because of the fast?
Well, have a look at Berkhan doing deadlift with 600lbs x3;
http://leangains.blogspot.com/...7/who-am-i.html "

So what is the rest of the protocol? What should I be eating during my 8 hour feeding? Is there a specific macro nutrient breakdown or just a general guideline?

Your help is appreciated.

AD


#12

Did this guy just jump on here to promote his website, then take off?

Maybe we need a new thread for IF and the actual 6-8 hour feeding protocol.


#13

Did this guy just jump on here to promote his website, then take off?

Maybe we need a new thread for IF and the actual 6-8 hour feeding protocol.


#14

IF is only a protocol for when to eat. There is no specific macro nutrient ratio or caloric advice. If you know your body, you know how much calories are needed for your specific goal.

Here's my advice for any type of meal frequency:
Protein intake should be as high as about one gram per pound bodyweight and maybe even higher if the goal is lower bodyfat. Carbs should be no higher than what is needed for you to perform optimal in training (this requires expermentation on your side). Fats should be around half a gram per pound of bodywheight, with adjustments depending on your goal. Most importantly, eat healthy foods, preferably organic.

Pre-workout meal should consist of 30-40grams of protein from meat, with about 40grams of carbs from fruit.

Btw, i don't even follow IF myself. Just brought it up in this thread to prove a point.