T Nation

Getting Weaker

Some friendly advice decide what you really want. Sounds like you want to get stronger and lose some body fat at the same time. Maybe for the exceptional few that can do both you may have to pick the battle that is most important to you. If losing fat is more important than do that go on a calorie restriction and do some cardio and maintain strength lose the fat. If gaining strength and size is more important do that eat, train, recover don’t worry about the weight in the end, weight can come off.

Once you complete the desired one than do the other. Not everyone is going to be the Universal Soldiers that can do everything at once so choose your battles. If you feel that you are not getting enough rest train 3 days a week Wendler has plenty of 3 day or 2 day programs to choose maybe the 4 day split maybe too taxing on your body. Step out of your comfort zone of how to train and train many ways that is the best way to know your body and self. see what works keep it and pitch out the rest.

I don’t think one needs to be a ‘Universal Soldier’ to lean out and gain strength. As long as one is willing to take their time with the fat loss and put forth some effort in their training it’s very much doable for the average Joe. This of course is assuming they don’t want to get fitness model lean, then strength gain would of course take a back seat…but this fella doesn’t sound like he wants to fake and bake and strut around a stage so strength increases and fat loss=doable.

Set performance goals in conditioning and strength. Use easy tests and a wide variety. So here are some VERY SIMPLE TESTS ANYONE CAN DO. Goals are up to you. I have written about this countless times.

Box jump - 40"
1 mile run - 6:00
Press - bodyweight x 5 reps
Squat - 500x1 or 15-20 rep goal
300 yard shuttle - 55 seconds
100 pound weight vest - 1 mile - 15 minutes
Chins - 20 reps

Diet - eat for performance.
Save your money.

Keep this up for a decade and watch what happens. Be inconsistent and you’ll forever be “dieting” and “getting back into it.” Your choice.

Guys thank you for all the replies I am overwhelmed by how much you guys care and and all the help and suggestions and explanations you have given me, I am going to do as you guys have said eat good whole foods with plenty of protien and eat till I am satisfied and full but not busting at the seams and if I’m still not gaining I will add in another meal. I am going to finish deloading this week so I am fresh and and get my training template in order. I am going to take this cycle by cycle and make some tweaks if and when they are needed. I am going to focus on getting strong and if my clothes stop fitting in a bad way like cannot pull my scrub top over my stomach then I know I will need to change some stuff. But most importantly I am going to stop this defeatist mind fucked mentality I have been in. You guys have given me the swift kick in the ass I needed and want to thank you for that.

I’d like to know how things work out. Keep us posted.

Do you always do the deload? (if not do it religiously). Do you regularly go very close to failure on the main lift/jokers?

Also take some/all of Jim’s Plazma stack depending on budget. -Even half a scoop of Plazma mid workout can make the world of difference

Will do Will thanks again.

Something similar happened to me. I have been following 531 for a bit over a year now. I started really well, then things started going backwards. I looked at things to see what was going wrong.

Firstly, I had been making small modifications to the programme, so what started as a bbb template was now no longer a Wendler template.

Second, I was progressing very well on endurance conditioning work. I was completing 10k runs where I had once hardly been able to run a mile. That had to take away from my lifts.

And thirdly, my diet was very poor.

once I returned to the basic principles of the Wendler system I returned to making good gains. I still engage with endurance work. This year’s target is a triathlon. But I am back to making solid gains with my lifts. Every time I am tempted to go tweaking the programme now I go back and re-read the book.

bump to all the things said above by will.

also don’t over do the joker sets once in a while. every 6 weeks if you really feeling good and strong, not when your feeling tired or beat up from work. not a good idea it will knock the shit out of you and you won’t recover.

do the main lifts and a couple of accessory exercises. intake of enough calories is really important you also have to prep before. it will make things a lot easier.

and at that height your leverages are different’ so putting on some weight on that body wouldn’t be a bad idea.

good luck man let us know how it goes.

will what do you think on the deload should he try to eat same amount of calories? for myself I eat exactly the same as I do on training days or non trainging days and even throw in a cheat meal on sat-sun

my diet is the same on work vs non work days except for the Surge post workout. Recovery happens during rest and you need to fuel that recovery. Also, if I know life is going to get in the way and i’m going to have to not lift for while or i’m going to have to lift less often i’ll have to adjust my eating to match.

I dont fret diet much - you can tell if you’re getting enough calories (you either put on more fat than you want or your energy levels go down and you don’t recover between workouts). Yeah, I could probably be leaner if I focused on it. But i dont want to force the family to eat like me or ask my wife to cook separate meals.

Because of that I dont really do cheat meals - we eat out twice a month at most and I try to eat healthy when we’re out as well.

As to what the OP should do i reiterate - he’s getting weaker so the calories he’s taking in is not enough for his lifestyle. He needs to increase food intake from what he was doing prior. Even deloading he needs to increase his intake to reverse this. Once he’s getting stronger again, he’ll need to continue to increase his intake. More weight lifted = more work (W=FxD) = more energy required to generate that force. Also, increased muscle mass will change his BMR so calories will continue to increase. He’ll just have to learn how fast to increase intake.

First task is to get out of the rut. Once he’s on an increase again, he’s going to have to learn how his body reacts.

I believe as a training goal strength rules. If you train for strength, size will come. If you train for strength, with slight tweaks you can get lean. If you train for size, strength will come but it is harder to get lean. If you train to be lean, you’ll struggle to gain size and strength.

thanks will very good I agree buddy.i think with your advice and from the others he should go in the right direction. well done!

im always looking to learn been doing wendlers program for awhile now. If I have some question im sure you or jim will be here to help.

thanks bro have a great night

Thanks again guys and a big thanks to Will, I have taken this week off, just done a little body weight stuff to keep loose. I will be starting back up with week number one later today, after I sleep. I will keep you guys posted as to the progress I am making and have my ear to the ground for any suggestions you have along the way.

good luck RN :slight_smile: you’ll do great. remember it’s also a journey. things happen over time.

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[quote]jais wrote:

This I don’t understand. You ran a super advanced routine that you need to have everything dialed in to make progress on; diet, sleep, mind, etc, and experienced awesome gains, but you switch to a basic 5-3-1 template and everything goes to hell? Doesn’t add up.

[/quote]

I don’t agree with this part. Sheiko can be complicated, but don’t most weak beginners do well by benching 3 times a weak with moderate weights? I don’t think Sheiko is necessarily advanced at least regarding the bench press. I think it is pretty simple:Train frequently at an effective dose and intensity. Almost all of my bench press improvement came from 3 x per week with an occasional day off.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]jais wrote:

This I don’t understand. You ran a super advanced routine that you need to have everything dialed in to make progress on; diet, sleep, mind, etc, and experienced awesome gains, but you switch to a basic 5-3-1 template and everything goes to hell? Doesn’t add up.

[/quote]

I don’t agree with this part. Sheiko can be complicated, but don’t most weak beginners do well by benching 3 times a weak with moderate weights? I don’t think Sheiko is necessarily advanced at least regarding the bench press. I think it is pretty simple:Train frequently at an effective dose and intensity. Almost all of my bench press improvement came from 3 x per week with an occasional day off. [/quote]

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]jais wrote:

This I don’t understand. You ran a super advanced routine that you need to have everything dialed in to make progress on; diet, sleep, mind, etc, and experienced awesome gains, but you switch to a basic 5-3-1 template and everything goes to hell? Doesn’t add up.

[/quote]

I don’t agree with this part. Sheiko can be complicated, but don’t most weak beginners do well by benching 3 times a weak with moderate weights? I don’t think Sheiko is necessarily advanced at least regarding the bench press. I think it is pretty simple:Train frequently at an effective dose and intensity. Almost all of my bench press improvement came from 3 x per week with an occasional day off. [/quote]

You’re right. It is a beginner routine.

link to the forum where I started my training log

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]jais wrote:

This I don’t understand. You ran a super advanced routine that you need to have everything dialed in to make progress on; diet, sleep, mind, etc, and experienced awesome gains, but you switch to a basic 5-3-1 template and everything goes to hell? Doesn’t add up.

[/quote]

Dude…

I don’t agree with this part. Sheiko can be complicated, but don’t most weak beginners do well by benching 3 times a weak with moderate weights? I don’t think Sheiko is necessarily advanced at least regarding the bench press. I think it is pretty simple:Train frequently at an effective dose and intensity. Almost all of my bench press improvement came from 3 x per week with an occasional day off. [/quote]