Getting Weaker?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

[quote]
Tuesday:
deficit deads:
Deadlift:
Machine Rows:
Weighted pull ups:
Curls:[/quote]

You could swap a few sets of machine rows for a single set of Kroc Rows (bent over DB row to failure); slot this in BEFORE your curls and it’ll give you a nice little pre-exhaust on ur Bis while being, in itself, an awesome “functional” excersise (for pullin’ wenches out of the ocean while leanin’ over yer boat!)

Your other shit looks better now. I am guilty of immense hypocrisy, though… i put 80kg on my bench in 2008 in 4 months (taking me to 180kg) doing nothing but bench press and cable-flyes (lol). I had access to nothing else… just for the record.

I was using scotlands finest performance enhancing drug at the time though… Haggis!

22

Are you looking for advice or validation? You came to this forum with the problem of why your program wasn’t producing results anymore. Many people have given you good advice yet you haven’t accepted any until somebody mentioned your diet. All you have done is defend a obviously flawed program. Do you want to get better or not. If so, listen to the advice you have been given or don’t ask in the first place. Are you a bodybuilder or powerlifter?

A powerlifter doesn’t need to “prime” his CNS like a bodybuilder does. There is a reason Christian has his bodybuilders do that stuff. Hopefully he doesn’t train his strength athletes the same way he trains his bodybuilders. Simplify your routine. Train the main lifts hard. Strengthen your weak points.

23

[quote]Crow wrote:
Are you looking for advice or validation? You came to this forum with the problem of why your program wasn’t producing results anymore. Many people have given you good advice yet you haven’t accepted any until somebody mentioned your diet. All you have done is defend a obviously flawed program. Do you want to get better or not. If so, listen to the advice you have been given or don’t ask in the first place. Are you a bodybuilder or powerlifter?

A powerlifter doesn’t need to “prime” his CNS like a bodybuilder does. There is a reason Christian has his bodybuilders do that stuff. Hopefully he doesn’t train his strength athletes the same way he trains his bodybuilders. Simplify your routine. Train the main lifts hard. Strengthen your weak points.[/quote]

Quoted for emphasis.

24

[quote]burt128 wrote:

[quote]Crow wrote:
Are you looking for advice or validation? You came to this forum with the problem of why your program wasn’t producing results anymore. Many people have given you good advice yet you haven’t accepted any until somebody mentioned your diet. All you have done is defend a obviously flawed program. Do you want to get better or not. If so, listen to the advice you have been given or don’t ask in the first place. Are you a bodybuilder or powerlifter?

A powerlifter doesn’t need to “prime” his CNS like a bodybuilder does. There is a reason Christian has his bodybuilders do that stuff. Hopefully he doesn’t train his strength athletes the same way he trains his bodybuilders. Simplify your routine. Train the main lifts hard. Strengthen your weak points.[/quote]

Quoted for emphasis.
[/quote]

Crow: None of your statements even make sense. I have not been trying to defend my program. The only things i’ve said are that 1) my accessories are going up and big three are going down. 2) I am not going to failure on ANY exercise. 3) I stated why i chose the lifts I chose.

I didnt try to defend a program. I said that the partials increase my main lift for the day. And that i’ve chosen the lifts I have in order to address my weaknesses. Everyone else just told me too much volume too much volume. Too much volume leads to overtraining. I have no symptoms of overtraining at all. So, why would I listen to that advice, especially when I know i can recover from more volume without an issue.

Secondly, Powerlifters and olympic lifters need to prime their CNS more than anyone. Why the hell do you think so many powerlifters use Nose Torque or smelling salts? If you haven’t read anything on ramping the central nervous system, and obviously know nothing about it, then you probably shouldnt discount it to all lifters except bodybuilders. It just makes you look dumb to those who do know what they are talking about.

Thirdly, I’m obviously training the main lifts hard and i’m addressing my weak points.

Burt: Please don’t post something as condescending as “Quoted for emphasis” when you obviously haven’t read the other posts.

25

You do realize you are doubling up on the most stressful exercises every workout? How are you determining max force? Unless you have a tendo unit meter or some other method for scientifically measuring bar speed, then you are probably doing way too much weight to exert max force on the bar. If you are just going by feel and adding weight every week, you are not exerting max force. All this is going to do is going to do, and I hate saying this, is burn out your CNS.

You need to pick one or the other, size or strength, and prioritize. Very few people can do both at the same time successfully. The reasons your gains have ceased are 1) you are going too heavy too often and 2) your program is not very well thought out.

26

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
You do realize you are doubling up on the most stressful exercises every workout? How are you determining max force? Unless you have a tendo unit meter or some other method for scientifically measuring bar speed, then you are probably doing way too much weight to exert max force on the bar. If you are just going by feel and adding weight every week, you are not exerting max force. All this is going to do is going to do, and I hate saying this, is burn out your CNS.

You need to pick one or the other, size or strength, and prioritize. Very few people can do both at the same time successfully. The reasons your gains have ceased are 1) you are going too heavy too often and 2) your program is not very well thought out.[/quote]

Yep, what you said.

27

Hey buddy I don’t where to start or if I should even waste more time on you. Powerlifters/OL don’t need to “prime” their CNS because the majority of the workload is already very CNS demanding and specific. All extra CNS load is going to do is burn you out. Bodybuilders need that “priming” because their workload isn’t very CNS demanding.

You say I don’t know what I’m talking about, yet you are following somebody elses theories and routine and are considering bouncing to another persons (your periodization guru) routine. Figure what works for you, “learn” to train yourself. You say you have no symptoms of overtraining… except that your lifts are getting weaker (to me the number 1 symptom).

As for me not knowing what I’m doing. If you are ever on the west coast: I challenge you, pick a strength event powerlifting, OL, strongman. Show up in my weight class, I will own you. BTW bodybuilding is NOT a strength event.

28

The first thing you need to ask yourself with any training plan is “What do I want to accomplish?” and when I look at what you’ve mapped out I have no idea what you are trying to do. Your comments don’t clear things up because you allude to your main lifts getting weaker, but then you rave about how much weight you’ve added on the assistance lifts. Unless you are entering an overhead lockout or dumbbell fly competition, you need to adjust your priorities and cut back on the fluff stuff because otherwise you will be trying to serve too many masters.

Mike (STB), Tom, Crow and others have already stated this, but your snarky responses make it clear that you have way too much of a personal stake in this ‘routine’. You are refusing to accept any advice offered by people that have much more experience under the bar than you, not to mention are pretty damn knowledgeable about training. You can e-attack me if you wish and keep doing what you’re doing. However, if you would just step back and be more objective, then you would see that some changes need to be made.

29

Crow, how bout you show up in my weight class and try to beat me…

If you are priming the CNS you are not stressing the CNS, you are PRIMING it. Its like a warm up for your nervous system. If its primed it will increase your performance. Again, that is why powerlifters and o lifters use smelling salts. I’m not following anyone’s theories. I’m doing what has worked for me in the past, and for the most part is still working for me. I work with sports scientists everyday. I work with those who are doing their dissertations on priming the central nervous system and increasing sports performance. AND there is almost no evidence that states CNS fatigue as leading to overtraining. So, if you think you can prove any part of your case, please feel free to post it.

Also, please remember that there are only three lifts that i’m actually not progressing on right now. There are several other symptoms of overtraining: blood pressure change, body temp change, heart rate change, hunger decreasing, as well as a few other things. Out of over 20 lifts i’m only getting weaker or becoming stagnant on three of them.

That is why i’m confident that its not CNS fatigue or overtraining. I’m thinking that there is a weakness in all three lifts that I may not be addressing. Or as i stated in another post that it could be a result of general fatigue due to a physically demanding job.

30

Nova: again, everyone has alluded to overtraining as the culprit. I can pretty much guarantee that is not the case. I will be cutting a few of the fluff exercises. but I will continue to keep the ones that are helping my lifts. I have only been giving snarky responses, because I’ve had to state too many times that its not overtraining and that i’m not working up to a 3 rep max. If people would read the posts instead of blindly posting then I wouldnt have to be this way.

31

[quote]legacyfighter wrote:
Crow, how bout you show up in my weight class and try to beat me…

If you are priming the CNS you are not stressing the CNS, you are PRIMING it. Its like a warm up for your nervous system. If its primed it will increase your performance. Again, that is why powerlifters and o lifters use smelling salts. I’m not following anyone’s theories. I’m doing what has worked for me in the past, and for the most part is still working for me. I work with sports scientists everyday. I work with those who are doing their dissertations on priming the central nervous system and increasing sports performance. AND there is almost no evidence that states CNS fatigue as leading to overtraining. So, if you think you can prove any part of your case, please feel free to post it.

Also, please remember that there are only three lifts that i’m actually not progressing on right now. There are several other symptoms of overtraining: blood pressure change, body temp change, heart rate change, hunger decreasing, as well as a few other things. Out of over 20 lifts i’m only getting weaker or becoming stagnant on three of them.

That is why i’m confident that its not CNS fatigue or overtraining. I’m thinking that there is a weakness in all three lifts that I may not be addressing. Or as i stated in another post that it could be a result of general fatigue due to a physically demanding job. [/quote]

Powerlifting training naturally primes the CNS if your doing it right and not just throwing heavy weight on the bar. So there’s no need for the primers you have in place. You can use them in different cycles of your training but not all the time. Just regular ramping should be fine man.

Go back to heavy singles with no “primers”.

32

[quote]legacyfighter wrote:
Crow, how bout you show up in my weight class and try to beat me…

If you are priming the CNS you are not stressing the CNS, you are PRIMING it. Its like a warm up for your nervous system. If its primed it will increase your performance. Again, that is why powerlifters and o lifters use smelling salts. I’m not following anyone’s theories. I’m doing what has worked for me in the past, and for the most part is still working for me. I work with sports scientists everyday. I work with those who are doing their dissertations on priming the central nervous system and increasing sports performance. AND there is almost no evidence that states CNS fatigue as leading to overtraining. So, if you think you can prove any part of your case, please feel free to post it.

Also, please remember that there are only three lifts that i’m actually not progressing on right now. There are several other symptoms of overtraining: blood pressure change, body temp change, heart rate change, hunger decreasing, as well as a few other things. Out of over 20 lifts i’m only getting weaker or becoming stagnant on three of them.

That is why i’m confident that its not CNS fatigue or overtraining. I’m thinking that there is a weakness in all three lifts that I may not be addressing. Or as i stated in another post that it could be a result of general fatigue due to a physically demanding job. [/quote]

Alright clown I’m done with you. If you are not progressing on the big three and you are a competitive lifter, then you are training wrong. There is an obvious problem somewhere or you would be making progress. If you are in such close contact with “sport scientists” then ask them, not us. You obviously think you have all the answers so please stopping asking for advice you are not going to hear and except.

33

Crow, I’m listening to the advice. I’m taking it into consideration. But in order for me to accept it, it has to be valid. If i’m not overtrained then the advice i’m getting does not make sense. Also, i have asked the sports scientists. They tend to agree with me that its not overtraining. In fact, most of them think i need to add another squat day and pull day. I’m trying to figure out another variable that it could be. Only one person has given me anything besides the overtraining variable. I never said that my program was perfect. I’m open to changes in my program. However, currently the partials are helping on a day to day basis, so why would i drop them? Maybe this will help get better advice… Pretend for a second that its not overtraining. What other variable could it be?

Chaz: I agree with you for the most part. Powerlifting training will naturally prime the CNS. And thats the way I used to train. But since i’ve been starting each training session with a partial (not to a max) its been increasing my primary lift about 10-20lbs for that day. I will try to incorporate heavy singles into my lifting, maybe the change will help.

34

Maybe I’m misreading your posts. But how is it helping if your getting weaker? How is it adding pounds to your main lifts if they are going down also? BTW who are your “sport scientists”? And what does that term even mean? The topic of sport science and its relevence has been thoroughly discussed in other forums. What do they study?

I’ve met plenty of “exercise science” degree holders that are clueless to training. I have a degree in kineiology, am an ATC, CSCS, and level 1 USAW coach, I work as a PTA specializing in athletic and orthopedic rehab, and strength and condition a high school football team; am I considered a “sport scientist”?

35

[quote]legacyfighter wrote:

[quote]burt128 wrote:

[quote]Crow wrote:
Are you looking for advice or validation? You came to this forum with the problem of why your program wasn’t producing results anymore. Many people have given you good advice yet you haven’t accepted any until somebody mentioned your diet. All you have done is defend a obviously flawed program. Do you want to get better or not. If so, listen to the advice you have been given or don’t ask in the first place. Are you a bodybuilder or powerlifter?

A powerlifter doesn’t need to “prime” his CNS like a bodybuilder does. There is a reason Christian has his bodybuilders do that stuff. Hopefully he doesn’t train his strength athletes the same way he trains his bodybuilders. Simplify your routine. Train the main lifts hard. Strengthen your weak points.[/quote]

Quoted for emphasis.
[/quote]

Crow: None of your statements even make sense. I have not been trying to defend my program. The only things i’ve said are that 1) my accessories are going up and big three are going down. 2) I am not going to failure on ANY exercise. 3) I stated why i chose the lifts I chose.

I didnt try to defend a program. I said that the partials increase my main lift for the day. And that i’ve chosen the lifts I have in order to address my weaknesses. Everyone else just told me too much volume too much volume. Too much volume leads to overtraining. I have no symptoms of overtraining at all. So, why would I listen to that advice, especially when I know i can recover from more volume without an issue.

Secondly, Powerlifters and olympic lifters need to prime their CNS more than anyone. Why the hell do you think so many powerlifters use Nose Torque or smelling salts? If you haven’t read anything on ramping the central nervous system, and obviously know nothing about it, then you probably shouldnt discount it to all lifters except bodybuilders. It just makes you look dumb to those who do know what they are talking about.

Thirdly, I’m obviously training the main lifts hard and i’m addressing my weak points.

Burt: Please don’t post something as condescending as “Quoted for emphasis” when you obviously haven’t read the other posts.
[/quote]

Lifts not going up - THIS could be a sign of overtraining.

Try backing off a little on the volume, as most are telling you, and see what happens. Try it for longer than a week. See if it works. If it doesn’t, what have you really lost? Your lifts weren’t going up anyway. But maybe the majority here are on to something and it will work.

36

#1 Sympton of overtraining; getting weaker.

I don’t have any other advices for you OP at this point, i’m happy with my initial assessment and think you need to cut the workload a lil bit :wink:

Ive taken the time to post this, because i think theres too much mention of the CNS in this thread. Ammonia & Salts are just to wake the fat bastards up from their insulin induced slumps i think :stuck_out_tongue:

I set personal bests on days i do least “priming” i have found… assuming you’ve been awake for a few hours and not sat infront of a computer wanking furiously to night-elf paladins, you’re good to go (for squat PBs i do a 4 mile blitkrieg paced run BEFORE it, then work my way up doing singles :D). Yup.

Enough of the CNS plz. Other things that could be affecting your performance:

Drugs, Booze, Stress, Low T, Virus, Vitamin Def, Sleep Def, Too much Warcraft, errrrm. Maybe just have a holiday eh? A month off could do you some good (do 4 deloads).

Theres alot to be said for singles when it comes to strength…

Goodluck.

37

Ok so your getting stronger on your lifts or not? I don’t think I’m understanding because you say your lifts are going down but there going up 10-20lbs when you use the primers. If your not getting a PR then why use it?

Go for singles man, come back to partials another day.

38

[quote]legacyfighter wrote:
Crow, how bout you show up in my weight class and try to beat me…

If you are priming the CNS you are not stressing the CNS, you are PRIMING it. Its like a warm up for your nervous system. If its primed it will increase your performance. Again, that is why powerlifters and o lifters use smelling salts. I’m not following anyone’s theories. I’m doing what has worked for me in the past, and for the most part is still working for me. I work with sports scientists everyday. I work with those who are doing their dissertations on priming the central nervous system and increasing sports performance. AND there is almost no evidence that states CNS fatigue as leading to overtraining. So, if you think you can prove any part of your case, please feel free to post it.

Also, please remember that there are only three lifts that i’m actually not progressing on right now. There are several other symptoms of overtraining: blood pressure change, body temp change, heart rate change, hunger decreasing, as well as a few other things. Out of over 20 lifts i’m only getting weaker or becoming stagnant on three of them.

That is why i’m confident that its not CNS fatigue or overtraining. I’m thinking that there is a weakness in all three lifts that I may not be addressing. Or as i stated in another post that it could be a result of general fatigue due to a physically demanding job. [/quote]

Legacy, try not to take what I say personally. I am going to give advice only because I think it will help your situation. Make no distinction between priming and stressing the CNS. It is being exerted, period. I agree that it is like a warm-up, and if primed will increase performance. However, it is not at all similar to ammonia. As for what worked for you in the past, you may be entirely correct, however, as cliche as it sounds, nothing works forever. If the lifts that you are priming for are not going up, then I can only believe you are overexerting yourself beforehand.

I don’t know about the scientists you are working with, but there is quite a bit of evidence of CNS fatigue leading to symptoms of overtraining. I don’t need to post. Look on Google scholar, PubMed, UpToDate, etc. And if it is generally fatigue due to a physically demanding job, then all the more reason to cut back on total volume. If you truly, honestly believe that it is a breakdown in form, for the love of all that is good and pure on this planet, post some video of the lifts so we can give you some feedback.

39

[quote]legacyfighter wrote:
Crow, how bout you show up in my weight class and try to beat me…

[/quote]

This comment is pathetic and disrespectful. It is beyond my comprehension there are people that are still trying to help your sorry ass.

Let’s be clear, you are weak, and getting even weaker. People try to help but you are too big of a know it all to respectfully disagree with people’s requested opinions. Grow up.

40

You have Powerlifters trying to tell you how to get strong and you are telling them they are wrong.
They all compete in the big lifts…stupid. Shut your mouth and open your mind a bit, and let the people who actually do these lifts in competition help you, or go away. I don’t know what makes you an expert but these people actually train and experiment on what works. This is what they do. Oh and by the way any time you want to enter a meet and show me how you do, I will give you my results in my weight class and we can compare.

BB