T Nation

Getting Stronger without Hypertrophy?

Powerlifting
#1

Hey guys

I’m trying to get as strong as possible at around the 150 lb mark. I’m somewhat injury prone, and my knees and back can’t handle more weight due to the demands I place on them. I’m a short volleyball player, so I need to jump 40 inches repeatedly, and do all the related training as well which is hard on the body.

What would be my best bet on improving strength without too much hypertrophy? I am guessing at least some on here have faced this problem while trying to maintain a weight class in power lifting.

I can squat just under 400, deadlift much less than that after having a back injury for six months. I’m not entirely sure how much I can bench, as it hasn’t been a training priority for a long time due to my scapula being too weak and it causing a serious injury to my shoulder.

So, I took a long time off training chest and stretched it instead which worked great. I have started training it again in the last few months, but I am still being careful with various machines and occasional free weights. I can do 70 lbs on the dumbells.

I have single digit body fat of around 6-7%, and trying to work it down to below 5%.

#2

Are you actually a competitive volleyball player? If so and if you really squat just under 400lbs at 6-7% and 150 pounds, then you should probably work on improving you skill at your sport while maintaining strength.

At little more muscle mass may actually help improve knee and back pain as it will stabilize and help with impact as opposed to it being absorbed by your joints.

To answer your question, do 5/3/1 twice a week and include some sort of jumps before each day.

#3

agreed on the idea that increased muscle mass could lead to better stability/injury prevention.
Jumps are great for building explosive power/strength. If you want to reduce knee stress, do box jumps, these reduce shock tremendously. (step off the box after the jump. if you jump off, training effect is ruined.)

Also, I’d bet a lot of money you’re not squatting deep. There are studies that show deep squats are better for training vertical jumping than quarter and half squats are. Post a vid of your squat if you want advice on the lift itself.

Finally, Adarqui, a member of this site, has had very similar goals over the last few years. He might not be a bad person to ask for advice on this subject.

#4

[quote]IvanAndreevich wrote:
Hey guys

I’m trying to get as strong as possible at around the 150 lb mark. I’m somewhat injury prone, and my knees and back can’t handle more weight due to the demands I place on them…[/quote]

This is all there is to it. If you are so concerned to maintain your low body fat and oh so precious six-pack, then stay at 150 and be injury prone. If you wanna get strong eat some - the muscles and the connective tissue you build up through resistance training will protect you better than your current fragile frame. Any other discussions are meaningless. You think good voleyball players are conerned with their bodyfat?! What the heck is wrong with you

Also, if volleyball is your main concern talk with a coach - it is a very technically demanding sport nad I am not sure if there is any correlation between the total on the big 3 (which is what this forum is concerned with) and performance on the court. That is not to diss any weights training, but you just might be better off training your sport more and doing more drills specific to the mobility required of you o nthe court

#5

Im sure volleyball players do not have the goal of being a big giant fat ass but yes 150lbs seems like kind of a weight where you are fragile and you could get hurt more easily.

  1. Say you try doing heavy partial squats in the rack, you unrack this heavy weight and your bones just crumple into themselves and you die… GAME OVER

  2. You could get hit by a spiked volleyball in the head and it would break your neck because you dont have any trapezius protecting your cervical vertebrah.

You ever see someone with big traps break thier nECK? I DONT THINK SO.

I became less interested in karate when i realised simply gaining strength and a bit of muscular bodyweight you can almost automatically generate/absorb more force and throw people around more easily.

#6

minimize eccentrics as much as possible and work in low rep range

#7

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
step off the box after the jump. if you jump off, training effect is ruined.[/quote]

I’ve never heard of this. Care explaining or citing a source?

#8

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
step off the box after the jump. if you jump off, training effect is ruined.[/quote]

I’ve never heard of this. Care explaining or citing a source?
[/quote]

The point of box jumps is minimizing impact, while training explosively. You avoid the acceleration back to the ground, because you’re essentially ending the jump at the high point. If you jump off the box, then the impact is still there. If you didn’t care about impact, you wouldn’t do a box jump in the first place, you’d just jump as high as you can and land on the ground.

If you jump off the box, you’re doing what’s called a ‘depth jump’. I didn’t cite a source because it’s common knowledge that depth jumps are hard on your knees. If you’ve ever jumped down from anywhere, you’re familiar with the concept. You have to use your joints as shock absorbers. Box jumps minimize the shock.

Hope this is more clear, you can also read stuff from CT, or really anyone who uses jumps in their programming, they all say essentially the same thing regarding this movement.

#9

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_neural_exercise/neural_charge_exercise_box_jump

Here’s a solid reference, CT explains it in the video.

#10

the point of box jumps is training explosive power

jumping off is just rough on the joints

it doesn’t negate the benefit of increasing fast twitch recruitment

#11

As long as you have good landing mechanics and aren’t jumping off a mile high box, I think you’ll be okay. Sprinting is pretty damn hard on the joints too, but that doesn’t eliminate the training effect.

Just jumping off of a box does not make it a depth jump. Jumping off the box and then jumping to another box is a depth jump. There is a shock to the joints but the entire point of the depth jump is to build reactive strength from the force of falling down (in other words, gravity) and then immediately initiating a hard muscle contraction.

EDIT: The video you linked me to says nothing about negating the training effect of a box jump. He explicitly says that it negates the benefit of reducing the shock of absorbing your body weight, not the training effect.

#12

For fuck’s sake Angus. You needed to nitpick that? All I meant was that if you jump off the box, there’s no reason to have jumped ONTO a box in the first place, it basically just becomes a regular jump in terms of the effect on your body.

My point was that the benefit of a box jump AS OPPOSED TO OTHER JUMPS was the reduced stress. I’ll be more clear next time I’m talking to a know-it-all teenager.

#13

[quote]critietaeta wrote:
minimize eccentrics as much as possible and work in low rep range[/quote]

Some studies have come to a conclusion that high rep training (20-30 reps) increase max strength without significant hypertrophy. Just putting that out here.

#14

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]critietaeta wrote:
minimize eccentrics as much as possible and work in low rep range[/quote]

Some studies have come to a conclusion that high rep training (20-30 reps) increase max strength without significant hypertrophy. Just putting that out here.[/quote]

I actually heard about several studies that said the opposite (20-30 rep sets cause hypertrophy without significant improvement in max strength).

#15

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]critietaeta wrote:
minimize eccentrics as much as possible and work in low rep range[/quote]

Some studies have come to a conclusion that high rep training (20-30 reps) increase max strength without significant hypertrophy. Just putting that out here.[/quote]

Thats completely wrong

#16

New Rule:
Stop saying ‘some studies’ unless you are prepared to cite the reference. What you dreamed last night is not a source.

For examples:
Egger et al. Different types of resistance training in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus: effects on glycemic control, muscle mass and strength. Eur J Prev Cardiol. 2012 May 25.

This study showed that maximal strength increased more in low repetition training that high repetition training.

#17

[quote]arramzy wrote:
New Rule:
Stop saying ‘some studies’ unless you are prepared to cite the reference. What you dreamed last night is not a source.

[/quote]

This made me lol

#18

[quote]arramzy wrote:
New Rule:
Stop saying ‘some studies’ unless you are prepared to cite the reference. What you dreamed last night is not a source.

[quote]

But some of my dreams are so damn life like. Its gotta at least be close to counting.

#19

I am doing everything I can to stay out of the explosive training arguement going on in here. I don’t feel like interent yelling or offending anyone this early in the morning.

Anyway, OP, strength is a function of a couple different working mechanisms in your body. Mainly, inter/intracoordination of the muscular system with your central nervous system. That being said, developing and progressing these skills can be done fairly easy:

Only train heavy with low reps and fast with low reps. Any time you go to failure or feel a “burn” while under the bar, you begin to engage the processes responsible for growth. Obviously, the actions involved in coordinated muscular effort will be able to develop a ton of more force (when all other variables are equal) if there is more cross sectional area of muscle (hypertrophy) available for the given action. But, you said this is not an option for you because of your sport (which makes zero sense because there are plenty of people on earth that weigh more than 150lbs and can score over 35 on a vert. test… myself included).

You got two very good peices of advice above my post:

Limit the amount of time you spend in the eccentric phase of your training. The mechanical stress causes more damage to the muscle, more damage means more recovery/time exposed to oxidative systems, and this means more growth.

Practice your sport skills. If you are a competitive team sport athlete, strength training is GPP and injury prevention. That is it. There is very little you can do in the weightroom that will make you a better athlete.

#20

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
For fuck’s sake Angus. You needed to nitpick that? All I meant was that if you jump off the box, there’s no reason to have jumped ONTO a box in the first place, it basically just becomes a regular jump in terms of the effect on your body.

My point was that the benefit of a box jump AS OPPOSED TO OTHER JUMPS was the reduced stress. I’ll be more clear next time I’m talking to a know-it-all teenager.[/quote]

You said it negated the training effect, and then cited sources that did not support your point. You were correct in your statement about the benefits of box jumps in regards to reduced stress on the joints.

Being clear in your statements is helpful no matter who you’re talking to. I don’t know it all, and I never will. But, I do know how to clearly make a statement. If I’m wrong, then that’s fine. I’d rather be corrected and learn something out of the ordeal then have somebody let me be giving out misinformation.