T Nation

Getting Started


#1

Hello everyone!
I have been planning to do a cycle for a while now and have done quite a bit of research, but I was hoping to get some advice from people with experience.. I am 23 years old and have been lifting for a little over 3 years. I train 5 days per week, and consume around 4000+ calories a day.

I weigh 170 lbs at 8% body fat. I'm planning on running a cycle of test cypionate at 400 mgs for 12 weeks, and running Nolvadex as my PCT. Does this sound like a solid cycle? Any advice before getting started? Anything you can offer is greatly appreciated!!


#2

yeah, that's pretty much THE beginner cycle... Nolva at 20 mg/day for 4 weeks is generally good... split the shots of test up (Mon-Thur?), as the half-life is vastly overrated...

you might need HCG for a 12 weeker. 8 weeks might be a safer bet for a first cycle, tho...


#3

use AI no exceptions


#4

thanks for your input cycobushmaster. If you don't mind, could you elaborate on the benefit of injecting twice per week versus once? Also, why would an 8 week cycle be a better decision than 12?


#5

Thanks, c.m.l. So you think an AI is a better way to go than SERM? Or should I take both? Also, is there an AI you would recommend, as well as a dosage to go along with it?


#6

During cycle you need to run an AI to combat estrogen aromatisation.

Some people will tell you just to keep some on hand in case you experience some kind of symptom, this is wrong, high levels of estrogen are dangerous for men, especially for the liver. Arimidex is the standard, .25-.5mg EOD seems about good, just adjust the dose if you need more or less, your libido and water retention is a good indicator: both lowered libido and a bit of bloat means you have a lot of estrogen, the libido loss and dry joints means you probably have too little. You don't want high E levels but you don't want to tank them either.

Keep your serm for pct and have a few extra nolvas for any gyno symptoms that can pop up while on cycle.

HCG is always nice, makes recovery much more smooth.

Injecting more frequently regardless of ester length will provide more stable blood levels, think about how the drug releases and it will make sense.


#7

the blood levels are more stable, as the drug's release is more steady... i recently read some data that shows the half-life of test e is 5 days, and not the 10 days that is generally espoused. with that being said, shooting twice a week keeps you from spiking to a high level and then going back to the baseline, every week...

8 weeks is generally recommended for beginners, as it's a long enough time to see results, but short enough that recovery is a little easier. although, suppression generally occurs after 2 weeks (again, there's a lot of data showing it's even faster), so one would theoretically expect the same suppression from 8 weeks as 12 weeks. however anecdotally, people seem to recover better from 8 weeks vs 12 weeks....

at the very least, if you go with 12 weeks, then i would add in HCG for the last couple weeks, at a minimum..... you could use it with 8 weeks, too.

i'm starting to come back around on HCG, but i think i misunderstood how to properly use it when i was younger, and didn't have the benefit of the internet to dig up real scientific data on how it works...


#8

I'm on TRT so there is no PCT for me to speak about but the rest of this advice is on the mark. c.m.l. is right about the AI, I like the idea that you can adjust it quickly.

One question, you are 170 lbs and take in 4K cal. a day? You're not a marathon runner are you? Maybe I have to eat more!


#9

Thanks for the advice everyone! I think I may go with the 8 week cycle and switch over to using an AI instead of SERM. injecting twice per week makes sense too. Do you guys have a rough estimate of the kinds of gains I should be expecting from a cycle like his one? and Ive only been eating 4000 calories for about the past month lol. before that I was involved in tumbling/gymnastics, which made gaining weight rather undesirable. Plus I have an annoyingly fast metabolism..


#10

Here is one of my posts from about a month ago:

I just finished up a 12 week cycle of Test Cyp. 200 mls 2x/wk. I was previously on a TRT program of Test Cyp. 200 mls/wk. for about 2 years. I ran anestrozole at 1 ml with each injection. I did not alter my training or diet significantly other then dropping heavy squats due to a groin pull and upped my protein slightly to get a minimum of 1g/bw.

"Here is what I found; my body weight stayed at about 210, I had an increase in arms of 3/8", 1" on chest, 1/2" off waist, no change in upper legs(due to injury.)Although I had little size gains in my calves or forearms, I did see some noticeable definition. I really started to get more vascular at the 8 week mark. I am now returning back to my normal TRT program. In all I am pleased with the results and plan on running another cycle, maybe at the end of the year."


#11

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101


#12

Lots of good knowledge here good luck on ur cycle


#13

I told one of my friends who is running a cycle what you guys said about AI. His cycle is basically the same as mine except he's cycling enanthate. He's 2 weeks in and wants to know if it's too late to start an AI for himself. He already has Nolvadex on hand though.


#14

Start the AI now