T Nation

Getting Started Questions


Hello Everyone! I am quite new here so please bare with me. I have used the search engine, I have read many of the articles, and I have used this forum alot the past couple of weeks. You have all helped bring up my enthusiasm for trying to reach my goals (which have failed in the past) and you have answered many questions. But I am still confused about some things or just can't find my answer.

Background: I am very skinny and lean and going to follow the massive eating guidelines to pack on some meat. And from reading this forum, it seems like just about everyone is.

  1. I used to work out in the morning right when I get up without eating anything and now understand this is not to swell. Can I take half a serving of Surge before and then the other half right after and continue to work out in the morning (5:30 AM)? This is very convenient for me. The gym is near empty and I get it out of the way before work and school start.

I can move my workout to late afternoon/early evening (around 3:00 PM or 4:00 PM). Would this be better? But it can start to get busy at this time from past experience (after 4:00 PM it is hell).

Which brings me to...

  1. If I work out in the afternoon/evening time slot would I still have a P+C meal after my surge? I did a search but found conflicting views/opinions. Does it really matter as long as I get enough calories?

  2. On non-workout days do I keep everything constant except not take the Surge? In the case of working out in the evening, if I take a P+C meal after my surge would I still have a P+C at that time slot or move it to earlier in the day and replace it with a P+F?



What are your goals?

Do you go to bed really early?

The workout time is up to you, but I would imagine it may be easier to handle a good workout later in the day after you have eaten. Early morning without much food is sometimes a bit tough if you plan on gaining.

Surge only after workout, non workout days just eat food.

You can put p+c and P+f wherever you choose, just make sure to get carbs in breakfast and post workout. Also many people like having later meals in day as p+f meals.


Oh, yeah, you need to lift heavy objects, too.



Thank you Kong. I will remember that tip.

My goals are to gain weight. I am very skinny and lean.

So it does not matter when I have the P+C vs P+F meals then. Sounds good. Would it be best then to switch it up on non-workout days and have say my first 3 meals P+C and the other 3 P+F? Or is it better to keep everything constant?



damnit, I wrote a long response to this. Maybe it just hasn't posted yet.


B3....if you are very skinny and very lean you should look up the "Skinny Bastard diet" in the search engine,this may work pretty good for you to pack on mass...


I am having the same problems.


Your body handles carbs better in the morning, and not as well during the evening (the exception being post workout). On non-workout days, have your P+C meals in the beginning of the day, and your P+F meals in the afternoon and evening. This is the best way to keep fat gain down while packing on muscle, although if you're lean you obviously have more wiggle room on this. On non-workout days, my first three meals are P+C, and everything after is P+F.

It's trickier on workout days, if you work out in the afternoon or evening. You want your post-workout meal 1 hour after your Surge to be P+C (if you're interested in mass gain), but I usually try to make my last meal of the day P+F. If I'm working out around 4pm (yes, I know it's hellishly busy), I might have my 2nd and 3rd meals of the day be P+F, so I have the post-workout slots available for P+C.

Hope this helps.


As a recovering ectomorph myself, I feel your pain.

I assume that you're keeping a food log so that you know how many calories you're eating per day, yes? Okay. Given that you're getting a consistently high amount of cals, and given that you're a newbie to all this, I don't think that it'll make much difference at all whether you work out in the morning or afternoon. Either way, your total daily cals will be the same, you'll be getting most or all of your carbs post-workout, and you should gain weight. The problems that might worry a more experienced lifter ("I find that i can generate the most power X number of hours after waking up", etc.) won't be a factor for you at this stage.

The only change I'd make is to sip the Surge during the workout rather than taking it before. I find that this works better by far.

Good luck.


Ok, let me try this again. First, welcome. :slight_smile: Second, if you're very skinny, and trying to put on weight just EAT, EAT, EAT!! Don't sweat things too much, except that. (as long as you're lifting) Now, that said, here are some suggestions to your questions:

  1. Morning workouts are great. That's when I workout most of the time. If this is the route you go, make sure you wake up at least 1.5 hours before you start your workout, and have a P+F meal. You don't want to start your workout fasted. Then sip half your Surge during your workout, and drink the other half after.

  2. If you choose the evening workout, by all means, have a P+C meal 1 hour after you finish your Surge. You're right, getting the calories is the most important, but you want to take advantage of the post-workout timing.

  3. On non-workout days, replace Surge with a solid food P+C meal, but move all the P+C meals early in the day, and the P+F meals later. Make sure you get in ALL the meals, though.

Now, it's cool that you're thinking this all out, and nutrient partitioning does work. BUT, if it starts to get overwhelming, fall back to JUST EATING!!! You want to put on some MASS, so you're first order is to EAT, EAT, EAT! (did I say that already?) Heck, a couple of days per week TAKE THEE TO A BUFFET!!! (that one's for you, Patricia!) :wink:)

Good luck.

(btw, my first post in this thread was intended to come AFTER this post)


Hey thanks for all the feedback everyone!

I guess I should give you some background info too.

I am 21 (22 in 13 days). I have been lifting since about 15, but not very seriously. Did not really get into it until about 18. I am not new to nutrition, but basically the only thing I know is what was printed in Muscle Media (I know, I know). And did I mention I am weak.

I don't even know how I found this website. It just happened.

I chose Massive Eating because it comes from someone that knows what he is talking about. And the fact just about everyone in this forum swears by his methods (which seems like a lot). So it can't be all bad. Now granted, I don't want to become a health nut the rest of my life (not obsess over food/nutrition etc), but right now I really need to put on some meat.

Let me ask this then, how does everyone have fun with friends and family? How do you goto the movies or vacations and holidays without lugging a cooler and being really peculiar about your food?

I am so tempted just to say "Fugde Nutrition and so called eating right. I work out to feel good about myself and eat anything I want." I will miss those big bowls of frosted cheerios (a specially after a morning workout - can you say pumped!) and and mom's homemade pancakes though (I quit worrying about what I ate 6 months ago and just ate "normal" people food - I was just sick of trying all these programs with no progress). sigh.

Does anyone here just not care about eating Low GI or P+F or P+C and just eat when and what they feel like? Or is this how I become that skinny fat person? This is probably just a stupid question and I will be roasted, toasted, and burnt to crisp for it (I got the fire suit on). My parents, especially my dad, would love to take me places, go golfing, movies, vacations alot more often, but he said he thinks I will say no because of my workouts/nutrition program. So he does not bother to ask. Talk about depressing.

Thank you Kong! Your post made me think alot about committing to such a program and is how I came up with all the above info/questions.

BTW, I attend Oklahoma State University (go Sooners! err... Pokes). My major is Computer Science. I love video games, movies, books, and computers. And my Name is Chris :slight_smile:



Well, you need to make a decision somewhere along the line, and that is: what's your priority going to be? I don't think that you need to be 100% anal about your diet, but if you're not getting enough food into yourself, then you won't gain weight.

But I have a question for you: Are you or are you not keeping a food log? (Frankly, it doesn't sound like it.) And if you are, how many calories are you eating per day?

As for your mom's pancakes, how about getting her to use a slightly different recipe? Here's mine:

1/4 cup pancake mix
1/2 cup oatmeal
1.5 scoops vanilla low-carb Grow
1 cup low-fat milk
2 egg whites

Stir it all together, let it sit for a minute, then pour it into an 14-inch (or so) non-stick pan. Medium-high heat. If you want more carbs, add in some berries or a sliced banana. Flip it over after five minutes or so, cook the other side for about 1 minute. Serve.

You get over 50g of protein, almost all of it very bioavailable, about 70g of carbs (without the fruit) and negligible fat. And the grow makes it taste sweet enough that you don't really need any syrup or anything else like that to flavor it.

So, you see? With a little creativity, you can have your (pan)cake and eat it too. Heh heh.