Getting Smoke Checked

My first thought was that you simple need to get stronger. You talking about 225 lb dead-lifts maxes makes me assume that you are probably still very weak. I’m no endurance monster but a 75lb dead-lift would be nothing but a joke, 20 reps or not.
I don’t think you mentioned your height but 155lbs is pretty small. You would likely benefit from allowing yourself to gain some muscle to get stronger. Increase your strength, eat some food, walk your dog several times a weak for several months and try again.

I wouldn’t blame 5/3/1 for not meeting you goals even though I think its a pretty slow building program, I think its your execution and mindset. Good luck!

I may be misunderstanding your goals here. Are you training to become an athlete or to get better prepared for USMC OCS? Having read your posts, I don’t have a definite understanding.

[quote]PainRain wrote:
My first thought was that you simple need to get stronger. You talking about 225 lb dead-lifts maxes makes me assume that you are probably still very weak. I’m no endurance monster but a 75lb dead-lift would be nothing but a joke, 20 reps or not.
I don’t think you mentioned your height but 155lbs is pretty small. You would likely benefit from allowing yourself to gain some muscle to get stronger. Increase your strength, eat some food, walk your dog several times a weak for several months and try again.

I wouldn’t blame 5/3/1 for not meeting you goals even though I think its a pretty slow building program, I think its your execution and mindset. Good luck![/quote]

Ouch on the mindset comment. Not sure that’s quite a fair remark, as I didn’t A) blame 5/3/1 for anything, and in fact asked how I can continue to use it, and B) exhibit anything other than an intense desire to gain knowledge about how to continue to get stronger and achieve my goals.

You’re right though, I am still pretty small, and pretty weak. I need to get stronger, and continue to eat and lift. Alas, I’m fairly new to strength training.

However, seeing as how I need to hit an 18min 5k, and train for 3-10 mile hikes with a heavy load, I think maybe I’ll need slightly more vigorous conditioning than walking my dog. I hope that was a genuine suggestion for easy cardio, and not a cheap joke at a beginner’s expense.

[quote]
Th3Pwnsher wrote:

I may be misunderstanding your goals here. Are you training to become an athlete or to get better prepared for USMC OCS? Having read your posts, I don’t have a definite understanding.[/quote]

My goal is to be better prepared for USMC OCS. Sorry about the lack of clarity. 100% to excel at OCS.

From my experience:

  • Lift however you want, but keep it basic and don’t get sore all the time. Include pull-ups and push-ups.
  • Work on your run. This is what they’ll use to punish/fail you. Simple reason being it’s easy to put a group of you in formation and see who falls out. In my opinion, the easiest way is to run three times a week: one interval (needs to be at least 400-800m to have carryover for you), one short/tempo (2-4 mi for you): second half needs to be same speed as first half, one long (5-7 mi). Every other week switch your long run with an 8 mi ruck.
  • Practice circuit stuff as a finisher at the end of your lifting days. Nothing crazy: ~15 minutes. You likely need to get better at not blowing your load on rep 1.
  • Don’t get injured. Keep this in mind as you plan your time. If I were you my priorities would be:
  1. Run (ruck as part of this to condition your lower legs and potentially help weight gain)
  2. BW calisthenics (you have to pass this stuff and it’s a skill)
  3. Main lifts (gain weight and own a strength base - this will help as the weeks go on)
  4. Finishers (just to build some confidence and lactic endurance)

Don’t overthink it. Do what you need to to get through OCS: that has to be your goal. Training for school/selection is not the same as training for operational fitness

With your current goal, I wouldn’t concern yourself so much with athletic programming/progression. If the workouts you face are going to be crossfit like, I feel like your best bet is to get good at crossfit by doing crossfit. Once your goals change, so can your approach.

This question gets asked around here relatively frequently. Basically, the answer is to get bigger and stronger while also improving conditioning. Read these:

check out seal fit they may be navy but they are tough

2 strength training sessions a week, 2 crossfit workouts a week.

Well what are your stats now? If you’re only pulling 225, you need to get significantly stronger. If you’re pulling 495, strength isn’t as much of an issue, conditioning is the problem.

Strength train 3 days per week, end each day with some form of 12-20 minute conditioning Crossfit style. Do running, bw stuff on 2-3 of the other days per week. Mix up with speed intervals, distance, etc.

Pretty much everyone is saying the same thing. Train for what you need to be good at.

You may want to take a look at any of Alpha’s logs in the Training Logs section. His training style (though not necessarily his current routine) is actually catered toward your goals, focusing on balancing strength, size, and endurance. That’s not to say that how he trains will work for you, but he’s around to ask questions.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
With your current goal, I wouldn’t concern yourself so much with athletic programming/progression. If the workouts you face are going to be crossfit like, I feel like your best bet is to get good at crossfit by doing crossfit. Once your goals change, so can your approach.[/quote]

Amen…you can be both a good husband and whore-monger in the same lifetime; but not at the same time…if you get my point.

[quote]OGrady wrote:

[quote]PainRain wrote:
My first thought was that you simple need to get stronger. You talking about 225 lb dead-lifts maxes makes me assume that you are probably still very weak. I’m no endurance monster but a 75lb dead-lift would be nothing but a joke, 20 reps or not.
I don’t think you mentioned your height but 155lbs is pretty small. You would likely benefit from allowing yourself to gain some muscle to get stronger. Increase your strength, eat some food, walk your dog several times a weak for several months and try again.

I wouldn’t blame 5/3/1 for not meeting you goals even though I think its a pretty slow building program, I think its your execution and mindset. Good luck![/quote]

Ouch on the mindset comment. Not sure that’s quite a fair remark, as I didn’t A) blame 5/3/1 for anything, and in fact asked how I can continue to use it, and B) exhibit anything other than an intense desire to gain knowledge about how to continue to get stronger and achieve my goals.

You’re right though, I am still pretty small, and pretty weak. I need to get stronger, and continue to eat and lift. Alas, I’m fairly new to strength training.

However, seeing as how I need to hit an 18min 5k, and train for 3-10 mile hikes with a heavy load, I think maybe I’ll need slightly more vigorous conditioning than walking my dog. I hope that was a genuine suggestion for easy cardio, and not a cheap joke at a beginner’s expense.

Then reread the last thread you created and see if the advice the other vets gave you makes more sense now.

Thank you guys for the wealth of responses. It seems like y’all are saying the same thing, or nearly the same thing. I need a strength program for strength, a Crossfit program for conditioning, and running for the running. Amazing how simple the answer is, and how horribly I can intellectualize it.

I’ll train strength 2 days a week, condition with Crossfit 2 days a week, and run 3 days a week (because I’ve been told OCS is largely a running school). My runs will include both intervals and long runs.

This is shooting from the hip, but something like:

Mon. 5/3/1 Bench and Press, Crossfit-style Conditioning
Tues. Rest
Wed. 5/3/1 Squat and Dead, Run
Thur. Rest
Fri. Crossfit-style Conditioning, Run
Sat. Rest
Sun. Run

[quote]dt79 wrote:

Then reread the last thread you created and see if the advice the other vets gave you makes more sense now.[/quote]

It does make much more sense now. I think having the experience of getting my ass kicked by an actual workout changed my perspective a lot. I was way overthinking things.

if you’re wanting to do 531 and crossfit at the same time, the 531 2nd edition book lays out exactly how to pair 531 and crossfit style workouts. I’d start there.

Do what you need to get better at.

If your OCS training requires you to be active for an hour straight with little to no rest period in between, then train that way.

[quote]OGrady wrote:
My goal is to be better prepared for USMC OCS.
[/quote]

You’d better be prepared to run and move your body weight. These two area’s make up the majority of physical training at least in enlisted boot camp.

I would concentrate my training in three areas:
(1) Calisthenics - you will do a lot of pull-ups & push-ups.
(2) Running - You will run 2-4 miles 3-5 times a week. If you aren’t use to it it’ll suck. You will also sprint, a lot.
(3) Long weighted marches. I would plan to work up to rucks of 15 miles.

If you have access to a pool I would swim especially if you suck at it. You’ll have to pass swim qual (which is pretty easy), but gets progressively harder the higher (really lower) the qualification. If you’re able to get to swim qual 1 it’s pretty arduous.

You will spend a lot of time performing drill. It’ll be difficult to prepare for this, but believe me hours of walking around with a rifle will wear on you.

Boot is more mental than physical if you’re physically prepared for it.

Crossfit isn’t a bad choice, but I think tabata rounds will better prepare you for the quarterdecking that I assume occurs at OCS. I would pick 5-6 BW exercises (push-ups, side-straddle-hops, burpees, crunches, etc…) and do 10 reps per exercise then move to the next exercise with no rest. I’d do this for 4-6 minute rounds. Physically quarterdecking and “around the world” (that’s what we called it when we’d go from sand pit to sand pit and basically be quarterdecked over and over again) was initially the worst, imo.

Good luck.

When do you ship?

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I would pick 5-6 BW exercises (push-ups, side-straddle-hops, burpees, crunches, etc…) and do 10 reps per exercise then move to the next exercise with no rest. [/quote]

I do something similar (10 reps of 10 calisthenics with no rest under 5 minutes) at judo practice.

Shit is deceptively hard. I can’t even imagine how difficult it’ll be if I manage to do it with some actual ROM on the buddy squats and the clapping push-ups.

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I would pick 5-6 BW exercises (push-ups, side-straddle-hops, burpees, crunches, etc…) and do 10 reps per exercise then move to the next exercise with no rest. [/quote]

I do something similar (10 reps of 10 calisthenics with no rest under 5 minutes) at judo practice.

Shit is deceptively hard. I can’t even imagine how difficult it’ll be if I manage to do it with some actual ROM on the buddy squats and the clapping push-ups.[/quote]

Lol, it’s certainly not fun. It’s used as a form of punishment in boot camp…

[quote]OGrady wrote:

[quote]PainRain wrote:
My first thought was that you simple need to get stronger. You talking about 225 lb dead-lifts maxes makes me assume that you are probably still very weak. I’m no endurance monster but a 75lb dead-lift would be nothing but a joke, 20 reps or not.
I don’t think you mentioned your height but 155lbs is pretty small. You would likely benefit from allowing yourself to gain some muscle to get stronger. Increase your strength, eat some food, walk your dog several times a weak for several months and try again.

I wouldn’t blame 5/3/1 for not meeting you goals even though I think its a pretty slow building program, I think its your execution and mindset. Good luck![/quote]

Ouch on the mindset comment. Not sure that’s quite a fair remark, as I didn’t A) blame 5/3/1 for anything, and in fact asked how I can continue to use it, and B) exhibit anything other than an intense desire to gain knowledge about how to continue to get stronger and achieve my goals.

You’re right though, I am still pretty small, and pretty weak. I need to get stronger, and continue to eat and lift. Alas, I’m fairly new to strength training.

However, seeing as how I need to hit an 18min 5k, and train for 3-10 mile hikes with a heavy load, I think maybe I’ll need slightly more vigorous conditioning than walking my dog. I hope that was a genuine suggestion for easy cardio, and not a cheap joke at a beginner’s expense.

The walking the dog was a serious suggestion. A brisk walk is very effective. Add a weighted vest and take it to the next level. The 18min 5k is bullshit and will prove to be very difficult to combine with other activities unless you are a natural built runner. You are probably going to have to do a lot of running to hit those times. The hike should be be pretty easy. Simply getting stronger should take care of the rest and I bet 5/3/1 could do that for you.