Getting Rid of Barbell Squats?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

I don’t agree with your argument either. Deadlifting, yes, is functional. But only as much as a squat. I think its less taxing for your lower back to squat heavy vs deadlifting heavy. Don’t a lot of westside barbell guys squat a lot more than they deadlift?

Jump squats are still a lot of spinal compression.

Might as well squat light instead of leg pressing heavy.

My post is pretty repetitive, I know. Honestly, I don’t think you have a good reason for not doing them, except for the fact that you don’t feel like it.

“Squats are hard!! Let’s go Shopping!!”

/obscure banned mattell toy reference

22

How can you justify dropping squats because your legs are weak? That would be the best reason to keep them in your program.

If you don’t want to squat, man up and admit you just don’t want to do squats.

There are some things the other exercise will NEVER accomplish. A big one is learning how to actually push yourself when it’s hard. Deadlifts can teach that, but it is a lesson that is important enough to reinforce more than one day per week.

A wise man (not me) once said
Do the things you hate most first. They will benefit you the most

23

[quote]dankid wrote:
I actually am trying to talk myself out of dong squats, because its been ingrained in my head how great they are.

[/quote]

is there a youtube of this?

24

1-legged squats put you in a position where you’re far too unstable to stress a muscle enough to make it significantly stronger. As soon as you get enough external loading on a 1-legged squat to make yourself grow, you fall over. Shit, you’ll fall over far before you get enough external loading for any effect to occur. This is pretty much the same case with step-ups.

Deadlifts can’t build strong legs as effectively as squats can. They take a good deal of time to recover from. If you want to deadlift more, you need to be squatting and deadlifting.

Your snatch won’t go up if you don’t squat. Everyone with a decent snatch # squats to help their snatch. The only way to get the leg power to jump a weight up to snatch height is to move a weight much larger than the weight you’re snatching. Sure, you could just get better at snatches by doing more snatches, but that’s extremely inefficient and goes against the idea of the conjugate method…which is like the fucking 11th commandment. (You need other lifts to make 1 lift go up).

Lumberjack Squats: No significant loading going on here. Don’t tell me you’re gonna do 90lb Lumberjack squats for 200 reps to get strong legs. Lumberjack squats are good for high-rep squats, they’re good as an assistance lift, and they’re ok for teaching the squat. They’re pretty much a lightweight, poor-mans powersquat machine.

Leg Press: Squats are superior to leg presses. Undebatable. Besides, if you can squat 405+ it won’t take you long to move 20 plates on a leg press. Take someone who leg presses and they’ll only dream of moving 20 plates on the leg press. Leg Presses are to be done after squatting, if at all, not instead.

Jump Squats: How you gonna Jump Squat without normal squats. What would the purpose of that be? When do you ever, from a functional standpoint, jump with an external load. Don’t do me like this.

Deadlifts are the best full-body strength test and best full-body exercise.

Squats are the best lower body test of strength and the best lower body exercise.

Chins, Dips, Bench Press, Floor Press, and other heavy, compound lifts can battle it out for the best Upper-Body exercise and best upper-body test of strength.

And that’s the way it is.

25

[quote]Envision wrote:
dankid wrote:
I actually am trying to talk myself out of dong squats, because its been ingrained in my head how great they are.

is there a youtube of this?[/quote]

I think I just shit myself. Yay typos!

26

Im gonna give squats another try. The main reason, is that I really couldn’t find an adequate replacement for them.

Im gonna try things very differently than im used to though. My last workout, i reduced the weight to 95lbs, and did front box squats. For the box, i used a hex dumbbell on its side, which was pretty close to full range or motion for me.

Im gonna continue doing these in this manner, and not worry so much about weight, but focus on form. It may be my form, or my biomechanics, but i just feel that i get much better posterior strength from stepups and 1-leg squats, so im gonna focus on strength/power for those exercises, while learning to squat better, and developing flexibility with lighter squats.

Ive read just about every article I could find on here, and westside barbell about squats, and watched a lot of videos so now, all i need to do is practice.

One thing i notice though, is that even with light weight, or no weight at all, sometimes i’ll get a sharp pain in my knee. Its very brief, and nothing horible, but a bit scary. I think it may be from lack of hip flexibility, so this may improve as that gets better.

Thanks everyone for you inspiration/criticism. Oh, and im not sure if I ever answered the question about my goals. Basically, im not trying to be a competative squatter, I just want to be able to do a reasonable squat, with good form and use this exercise as assistance to the ones that i enjoy more.

27

[quote]dankid wrote:

Im gonna give squats another try. The main reason, is that I really couldn’t find an adequate replacement for them.

Im gonna try things very differently than im used to though. My last workout, i reduced the weight to 95lbs, and did front box squats. For the box, i used a hex dumbbell on its side, which was pretty close to full range or motion for me.

Im gonna continue doing these in this manner, and not worry so much about weight, but focus on form. It may be my form, or my biomechanics, but i just feel that i get much better posterior strength from stepups and 1-leg squats, so im gonna focus on strength/power for those exercises, while learning to squat better, and developing flexibility with lighter squats.

Ive read just about every article I could find on here, and westside barbell about squats, and watched a lot of videos so now, all i need to do is practice.

One thing i notice though, is that even with light weight, or no weight at all, sometimes i’ll get a sharp pain in my knee. Its very brief, and nothing horible, but a bit scary. I think it may be from lack of hip flexibility, so this may improve as that gets better.

Thanks everyone for you inspiration/criticism. Oh, and im not sure if I ever answered the question about my goals. Basically, im not trying to be a competative squatter, I just want to be able to do a reasonable squat, with good form and use this exercise as assistance to the ones that i enjoy more. [/quote]

Glad you decided to give squats another chance.

You said you sometimes feel a slight pain in your knee during squats? What type of squats are you doing? If you plan on doing powerlifting competitions, or really need to work on posterior chain strength, then perhaps doing “powerlifting” squats would be appropriate.

But, if you’re looking for overall leg development/strength, then personally I’d suggest doing olympic style back squats. Not only are they beneficial for your knees, but they also build good hip flexibility.

Here is a video of Dan John teaching people how to squat properly:

thefitcast.com/?p=108

Good training,

Sentoguy

28

squats and milk.

go to danjohn.org and read up on squats on one of his articles.

29

“I’ve repped high and I’ve repped low,
No matter what I do, my legs won’t grow”
He tried leg extensions, leg curls, and leg presses too
Trying to cheat, these sissy workouts he’d do.
From the corner of the gym where the BIG men train,
Through a cloud of chalk and the midst of pain
Where the big iron rides high and threatens lives,
Where the noise is made with big forty-fives,
A deep voice bellowed as he wrapped his knees,
A very big man with legs like trees.
Laughing as he snatched another plate from the stack
Chalking his hands and monstrous back,
said, “Boy, stop lying and don’t say you’ve forgotten,
The trouble with you is you ain’t been SQUATTIN’.”

– DALE CLARK, 1983

30

nice poem…

Ive been doing front squats lately, with a box. I was doing back squats, but when i started to get to heavier weights, i was having problems with my shoulders.

Next time i squat, i’ll probably use a bench as a box, and see if theres any knee discomfort there. Then i’ll increase the ROM from there. Its really only discomfort though, no real pain.

31

[quote]dankid wrote:
nice poem…

Ive been doing front squats lately, with a box. I was doing back squats, but when i started to get to heavier weights, i was having problems with my shoulders.

Next time i squat, i’ll probably use a bench as a box, and see if theres any knee discomfort there. Then i’ll increase the ROM from there. Its really only discomfort though, no real pain.[/quote]

Why are you using a box? I recommend against it for you. Experienced powerlifters are a different story but I don’t understand why beginners or intermediates box squat.

32

Zap, I like to have new squatters use a box just to guage depth… touch and go.

Dankid, about the knee pain… are your knees caving in when you squat? Do your toes point straight ahead, or do they point out a little. Are your knees tracking over your toes?

And good on you for stickin with them! You won’t regret it!

33

This is the type of post that never should have happened. If you are honest with yourself and how you squat I think you will find enough holes in the way you are approaching squatting to remedy the situation yourself.

You probably have at least one if not more of these problems.

Not working on your hip mobility enough
Squatting too heavy to keep good form
Not squatting often enough
Not warming up thouroughly
Havent taken the time to really learn what correct form looks/feels like.

Harshly critique yourself.

Whenever someone says something negative about an exercise as basic as a squat, my first thought is always that they are making excuses for not being able to do this certain exercise well, because if they were any good at it, they would like it! Realize the problem is you, however, if you have given something a really honest strong effort and it still doesnt work, then you might have a leg to stand on.

34

One thing that helped me out Dan is the thread about Chinese ROM thread. In that thread they relaxed into a squat, people also mentioned babies do this when they first learn to walk. I tried to replicate going in and out of this position without any weight.

I was already squatting sometimes even below parallel but it never felt natural going to that deep ass to grass squat position. Once I did this and overhead squats a few times I my squatting form got better.

Once you’ve mastered that you can try other versions of squats so that you can build strength in your legs faster. As its easier to add weight in different squat forms some people wider some more narrow. But keep trying to progress in this basic position from time to time to keep your body adequately flexible for the squat.

35

[quote]Steve-O-68 wrote:
Zap, I like to have new squatters use a box just to guage depth… touch and go.[/quote]

Not like a westside type box squat. I get so confused.

36

[quote]Steve-O-68 wrote:

Dankid, about the knee pain… are your knees caving in when you squat? Do your toes point straight ahead, or do they point out a little. Are your knees tracking over your toes?

![/quote]

My toes are slightly turned out, and my knees stay in line with my ankles (not dipping in). My knees tend to travel over my toes, and im not sure if this is related to the discomfort. Also, im not sure if its a flexibility issue, or just my biomechanics. Ive been doing squats on the edge of the door frame, trying to learn the form, and this may be helping.

Like i said though, i’ll use a bit higher box, like bench height, and work on lighter weight and form for a while.

My major issue with squats though, is that i dont feel it at all in my posterior chain, or at least not to the extend that i do with deadlifts, snatches, and stepups. I focus on driving through the heels, and pushing out instead of down.

I know squats are a valuable exercise, but are there some people that would benefit more from spending more time on deads and stepup and such, and less time on squats. Obviously if i was competing in squat, then the best thing would be squats, but if I just want big strong legs, isn’t there the likelihood that my time is better spent eslewhere?

37

[quote]dankid wrote:
Steve-O-68 wrote:

Dankid, about the knee pain… are your knees caving in when you squat? Do your toes point straight ahead, or do they point out a little. Are your knees tracking over your toes?

!

My toes are slightly turned out, and my knees stay in line with my ankles (not dipping in). My knees tend to travel over my toes, and im not sure if this is related to the discomfort. Also, im not sure if its a flexibility issue, or just my biomechanics. Ive been doing squats on the edge of the door frame, trying to learn the form, and this may be helping.

Like i said though, i’ll use a bit higher box, like bench height, and work on lighter weight and form for a while.

My major issue with squats though, is that i dont feel it at all in my posterior chain, or at least not to the extend that i do with deadlifts, snatches, and stepups. I focus on driving through the heels, and pushing out instead of down.

I know squats are a valuable exercise, but are there some people that would benefit more from spending more time on deads and stepup and such, and less time on squats. Obviously if i was competing in squat, then the best thing would be squats, but if I just want big strong legs, isn’t there the likelihood that my time is better spent eslewhere?

[/quote]

Benefit how? if you got heavy posterior work from deads and stepups why do you need the exact same thing from the squat?
What are you trying to accomplish with squatting that you feel you are not accomplishing?

38

[quote]dankid wrote:
My major issue with squats though, is that i dont feel it at all in my posterior chain, or at least not to the extend that i do with deadlifts, snatches, and stepups. I focus on driving through the heels, and pushing out instead of down.[/quote]

Wow, you need a lot of work on your squats. Read Mark Rippetoe’s Starting Strength - there’s a brand new 2nd edition out.
Watch the Squat Rx videos: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C03D688F10C4DE1F

[quote]Obviously if i was competing in squat, then the best thing would be squats, but if I just want big strong legs, isn’t there the likelihood that my time is better spent eslewhere?
[/quote]

This makes no sense whatsoever…

“If you don’t make a total commitment to whatever you’re doing then you start looking to bail out the first time the boat starts leaking.”

  • Lou Holtz
39

i find squating to good depth helps stimulate el posterioro chaino.

40

Substitute squats with front squats. Better for sports performance, and less load on the spine. Easier to drop failed lifts, and less pressure on the lower back.