T Nation

Getting Estrogen Sides from Cruise

I’m Cruising at 200mg Test E per week, I inject 2x weekly, I feel emotionally down I’m not sure if it’s that but I haven’t taken an AI in 3 weeks since my cycle, I’m also getting Acne.

I’m thinking of taking 12.5mg twice weekly since 200mg of test is mild and I didn’t need it EOD since my Blast, What dose of AI did you guys use I’m using aromasin.

Scrap the AI and use tamoxifen. 20 mg/day is what I take

I’m curious on why you’d use a PCT drug for an AI, what are the benefits of this?, I’ve never heard of people doing that before?

Its not an AI, its a SERM. Its most effective at preventing gyno related symptoms from high E2.

I used to take Adex for the reasons you want but @physioLojik who is a TRT Doc/endo plus a jacked up steroid user showed me enough data to convince me otherwise. He never uses AI or prescribes them for his patients . There are many benefits to estrogen and tamoxifen lets us keep those while occupying the estrogen receptor site and minimizing the negative effects.

Check out his thread and then read anything he has written.

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Thanks, I’ll probabaly try it in the future but I’ve realized it will cost me 4x more than doing 12.5mg Aromasin every 3 days.

I’m not that bothered about blood pressure too since mine is lower than normal.

You are taking 400 mg a week?

Oh I am so sorry lol I badly worded it, I take 100mg E4Days so 200mg a week, I can still get erections easily so do you think I have high est?, I 'm about 15% Body Fat.

Your e2 is probably just a little over where you would feel better. Try lowering your dose a little bit. Problem solved. I wouldn’t mess with e2 directly.

Have you ever had labs done on 200 a week?

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This information is being suppressed from you by the mainstream media and the medical establishment. Please share this information with friends and family. It could save someone’s life!

Article Summary
Tamoxifen is the most prescribed drug in the world for hormone receptor positive breast cancer. Yet tamoxifen has been implicated in many potentially serious side effects − including cancer in the opposite breast.

In 2006 AstraZeneca decided to stop making tamoxifen. Since then tamoxifen has been made in its generic form of tamoxifen citrate or Nolvadex.

Estrogen is a much-needed hormone, playing a pivotal role in the female reproductive system. Estrogen is actually an umbrella term for three different sex hormones:
Estrone (known as E1), considered a weaker form of estrogen
Estradiol (known as E2), the strongest form of estrogen
Estriol (known as E3), which is actually a metabolic waste product derived from estradiol metabolism, and only produced during pregnancy in significant quantities.

Researchers have observed that some breast cancer cells rely on estrogen to grow − this type of breast cancer is called estrogen receptor positive (ER+). Tamoxifen is the drug of choice being offered to women with ER+ breast cancer who have not yet been through menopause.
Interestingly, studies have indicated that tamoxifen is most useful for women who have ER+ breast cancer and are post-menopausal.

Increasingly, women are opting out of taking tamoxifen, especially since much more information has become available on the internet about this drug and its side effects.

The list of side effects (some of them life-threatening) associated with taking tamoxifen is lengthy with many being life-altering and impactful to a woman’s quality-of-life.

Part 2 of this article will cover the Tamoxifen lies that women have been told, why your own estrogen is likely not the culprit, and some specific actions that reduce breast cancer recurrence.

EDIT here’s part 2 summary:
The more common tamoxifen side effects include:

Absent, missed, or irregular periods
Back aches
Brain fog and trouble concentrating
Decrease in urinary output
Depressed moods
Fatigue
Fluid retention
Headache
Heart palpitations
Hot flashes
Hair loss or hair thinning
Irritability
Joint or muscle pain
Night sweats
Redness of the face, neck, arms, and occasionally upper chest
Skin changes
Skin rashes
Sleep disturbances
Swelling of the fingers, hands, feet, or lower legs
Troubled breathing at rest
Weight gain or loss
Vaginal discharge
Vaginal tissue thinning causing pain during intercourse.

Less frequent Tamoxifen side effects include:

anxiety
blood clots in legs or lungs
cancer of the uterus or endometrium
constipation, darkened urine, diarrhea
decreased libido difficulty breathing
hives on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, and sex organs
loss of appetite
nausea, vomiting, indigestion and bloating
pain in the stomach or side radiating to the back
red, irritated eyes
itching, large, hard skin blisters, sores and red skin lesions often with a purple center
liver toxicity and fatty liver
sore throat, ulcers or white spots in the mouth or on the lips
strokes
unusual tiredness or weakness

The more rare side effects of Tamoxifen include:

abdominal or stomach cramps
bleeding gums
blistering, peeling, or loosening of the skin and mucous membranes
blurred vision, cataracts in the eyes or other eye problems
bone pain; bone loss in premenopausal women
change in vaginal discharge
chest pain
confusion
cough or wheezing
dizziness, fainting, lightheadedness or weakness
fast heartbeat
fever or chills
hoarseness
lower back or side pain, pain or feeling of pressure in the pelvis
pain, redness, or swelling in the arms or legs
painful or difficult urination
rapid shallow breathing
skin rash or itching over the entire body
vaginal bleeding
yellow eyes or skin

Depending on what your SHGB is 200mg/wk of T cyp could be double what your body needs.
For an example, My SHGB is 24 and on 150mg/wk my TT is 1200 and Free T is 33 top of Free T range is 18. This required .125mg EOD of anastrozole to keep my E2 in the 24-32 range. BUT do to the super high Free T my HCT (red blood cell%) goes over range in as little as 3 months and donating blood only works until you crash your ferritin.

Bottom line get your SHGB tested and if it is low (less than say 30) cut your cruise in half to 100-120mg/wk.
Best of luck to you. Just to let you know I have been down this road and have the blood tests to prove it.

Thanks for the info but impacts on Estrogen in women are so much different than in men, IMO.

When I’m cruising I don’t take anything but with my current blast I’m on 20/day

Would it have anything to do with my size?, I’m 5ft 8 and 184lbs

I don’t think so. Im 5’8" 192#

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Sorry I meant to say do you think I’m using too high of a cruise dose based on my stats?

I understood what you were asking. I don’t think your weight or height is in the determination of how much one needed to cruise on. You basicly need to do what the TRT guys do.

I’m in the camp when cruising you use as little as you can get by with. Then when you blast your body will have a shit load of T receptors and all that extra T can be used better until the body adjusts. They call it a cycle because your body will do stuff to make all that extra T useless. Not to mention all the bad side effects like high HCT.
HTH

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Dialed it down to 150 since the acne is bad, I never had this problem on a 12 week 600mg cycle so I have no clue what it could be, I don’t think my estrogen is super high I don’t have ED or anything.

Have you had a blood test recently? Knowing your SHGB and Free T will really help you determine your week dose. Keeping your Free T in the upper range but not over will keep all those bad side effect, E2, prolactin, HCT, bacne at bay. My SHBG seems to move around a bit from 22 to 29 and to keep my free T in range my weekly is between 100-120 mg/wk T cyp. At this amount I also don’t need to take any anastrozole for E2 issues.

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Ok, started dosing at 150mg a week but also taking 12.5mg Aromasin EOD I woke up this morning with a huge erection took 12.5mg Aromasin and right now I have no desire for sex at all, I may just go back to my old dose and dose the aromasin at 6.25mg EOD.

I am amazed…

Too much playing around

One injection at 200mg per week. NOTHING ELSE! You do not need to do 2 injections per week when cruising at a TRT dose. Stop complicating it. You don’t need any other drugs. Clean up your diet and get some sleep. Give it time. Trust the process.