Getting a Big Power Clean

[quote]Wordwreckin wrote:
Chewie wrote:
Front squats
High pulls
Hang cleans
etc…

Get some oly shoes if you don’t have them already.

Find a USAW coach.

How would I go about finding a USAW coach. And also, for athletic carryover is it best to do power cleans Oly style, where you catch the bar in a front squat position, or how I’ve been taught which is just pretty much catching it in about a fourth squat?

[/quote]

Whoops, I forgot to answer the other question.

I think I will take the safe route and say that a coach who can see your strengths would be better qualified. Even a partner can see your errors/strengths.

I prefer the squat clean. That’s how I was taught.

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
Like I said earlier, power cleans are like upright rows, deadlifts, shrugs, etc. combined into one smooth and coordinated movement, so you might wanna be strong in each of those movements.

Forget about the upright row allready! It’s not an upright row!
When the elbow bends the power ends.

The deadlift doesn’t match the first pull either.

I concur with the other posters who wrote that if you want to clean a lot you have to clean a lot but first clean up your technique.[/quote]

I think I meant high pulls. My bad.

I wonder if it’s feasible doing power cleans with chains and/or bands.

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
Like I said earlier, power cleans are like upright rows, deadlifts, shrugs, etc. combined into one smooth and coordinated movement, so you might wanna be strong in each of those movements.

Forget about the upright row allready! It’s not an upright row!
When the elbow bends the power ends.

The deadlift doesn’t match the first pull either.

I concur with the other posters who wrote that if you want to clean a lot you have to clean a lot but first clean up your technique.

I think I meant high pulls. My bad.

I wonder if it’s feasible doing power cleans with chains and/or bands.[/quote]

Travis Mash Olympic - YouTube this guy does it with chains and bands-and is able to do heavy weight also-

thanks everyone for the great replies. I was looking for some new training ideas and I got em. one question I’d like to ask you all: when working the power clean, do you also perform squats on the same day? Max strength is a problem with me(160 kg below parallel squat, 130kg power clean), but I find working the power clean before squats really breaks my energy.

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
I wonder if it’s feasible doing power cleans with chains and/or bands.[/quote]

It fucks up the bar path, so it’s rather counterproductive.

It’s probably the first pull that’s sapping your energy, so maybe do hang cleans on your squat day. Do power cleans on another day.

Arnoud, doing squats before power cleans is against my religion.

Rack cleans
hang cleans
front squats
jump shrugs

One summer I focused on the clean and didn’t squat the entire summer. When I got back for football, my squat had gone up 40 pounds. So to me, squat isn’t as important as the other 3.

At school I last maxed out at 245lbs. on power cleans. I say deadlift and squat would help some.

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
I wonder if it’s feasible doing power cleans with chains and/or bands.

It fucks up the bar path, so it’s rather counterproductive.[/quote]

shizen’s youtube link seems to disagree.

[quote]arnoud verschoor wrote:
thanks everyone for the great replies. I was looking for some new training ideas and I got em. one question I’d like to ask you all: when working the power clean, do you also perform squats on the same day? Max strength is a problem with me(160 kg below parallel squat, 130kg power clean), but I find working the power clean before squats really breaks my energy.
[/quote]

I squat in 3 out of my 4 training days. So your tired, at least squats are a break from a full lift =D

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
I wonder if it’s feasible doing power cleans with chains and/or bands.

It fucks up the bar path, so it’s rather counterproductive.

shizen’s youtube link seems to disagree.[/quote]

Everyone with some knowledge on olympic weightlifting will tell you that the form used in that video sucks donkey ass.

When he’ll stand on the platform in Beijing next year and will come in at least as last in the A list, I’ll reconsider my statement that bands+olympic weightlifting=crap^2.

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
I wonder if it’s feasible doing power cleans with chains and/or bands.

It fucks up the bar path, so it’s rather counterproductive.

shizen’s youtube link seems to disagree.

Everyone with some knowledge on olympic weightlifting will tell you that the form used in that video sucks donkey ass.

When he’ll stand on the platform in Beijing next year and will come in at least as last in the A list, I’ll reconsider my statement that bands+olympic weightlifting=crap^2.

[/quote]
I’m pretty much certain the only capacity he’ll be at the Olympics in is as part of the bobsled team, if at all. I don’t think there was ever any intention of competing in weightlifting at that level, and even if there was you don’t get picked for the team without demonstrating consistency at comp level. Big partial lifts in training mean fuck all.

I’m not convinced of the efficacy of bands either. There’s some Russian research that suggests that missed lifts are almost never due to poor bar height, but are nearly always due to poor speed under the bar, i.e. poor reversal of direction (it’s on the Dynamic Eleiko site I think).

As far as I can see, all bands would do is encourage you to pull longer than you should do at the expense of getting under the bar quicker, i.e you get lifters who continue to pull when they have reached full extension.

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
I wonder if it’s feasible doing power cleans with chains and/or bands.

It fucks up the bar path, so it’s rather counterproductive.

shizen’s youtube link seems to disagree.

Everyone with some knowledge on olympic weightlifting will tell you that the form used in that video sucks donkey ass.

When he’ll stand on the platform in Beijing next year and will come in at least as last in the A list, I’ll reconsider my statement that bands+olympic weightlifting=crap^2.[/quote]

I was asking about power cleans, so Beijing would be out of the question.

[quote]ninearms wrote:
I’m pretty much certain the only capacity he’ll be at the Olympics in is as part of the bobsled team, if at all. I don’t think there was ever any intention of competing in weightlifting at that level, and even if there was you don’t get picked for the team without demonstrating consistency at comp level. Big partial lifts in training mean fuck all.

I’m not convinced of the efficacy of bands either. There’s some Russian research that suggests that missed lifts are almost never due to poor bar height, but are nearly always due to poor speed under the bar, i.e. poor reversal of direction (it’s on the Dynamic Eleiko site I think).

As far as I can see, all bands would do is encourage you to pull longer than you should do at the expense of getting under the bar quicker, i.e you get lifters who continue to pull when they have reached full extension.[/quote]

Looks like what you said is similar to what CT said.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Chains and bands are great for the powerlifts; these movements have an almost linear strength curve in that the '‘higher’'you go (closer to the end of the range of motion) the stronger you are. In that regard the added resistance at the top from the chains and bands are an advantage when it comes to building strength.

For the olympic lifts it isn’t exactly the same motor pattern: the point of maximal force production is not the the end of the lifting range of motion but rather around the middle, where the explosion occurs (normally this occurs when the bar reaches mid-thigh or hips level). At that point there is a powerful and explosive pull that important a lot of acceleration to the bar in such a way that the last portion of the range of motion has the bar traveling under the power of momentum; voluntary muscular force isn’t maximal at that point.

So it really doesn’t make sense to add a source of accomodating resistance that would add up mostly when the bar is traveling under the power of momentum. In fact it would be counterproductive to proper technique and would throw your timing WAY off when performing the ‘‘regular’’ lifts.

What I found is that training the olympic lifts with such apparatus is first of all very dangerous (try to do a snatch with chains or bands, technically it’s almost impossible as the bar rotation is limited) and even if it worked fine it would lead to the development of an ‘‘arm pulling’’ technique: the lifter would learn to rely on pulling with his arms instead of a powerful hip, knee and ankle extension. Why? Because since the chains/bands would add resistance at the end of the range of motion (where the bar normally travels mostly due to momentum) the bar would slow down at that point and the arms would have to come into play A LOT to try and prevent that deceleration. Do this over a relatively long period of time and you will learn to rely mostly on your upper body to clean or snatch the bar, which obviously take away most of the benefits of the movements.

Same thing goes with snatch and clean pulls: you will build a tendency to rely on your arms more.[/quote]

[quote]Joebob wrote:
Front squats… You should be able to power clean what you can front squat for a triple. Front squat often and heavy. By the sound of your numbers you probably already know this though. Good luck to you bro.[/quote]

I’ve never heard of this.

The rule is you should be able to C&J your 3RM front squat with pretty good technique.

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone PC their 3RM front squat…that would be obscene.

How to Increase your PC?

Better technique (get a coach, if you can’t do the first pull so that it makes contact with your thighs your screwed as your not pulling the bar efficiently)
POWER CLEANS FROM THE HANG. This will help your pull to no end.
Pulls from mid thigh

A big thing is that a lot of people do not seem to get the 1/4 at the end of the Power Clean. Don’t just pull fast up, PULL FAST UNDER THE BAR to block in your 1/4 receive position. This alone can add 5Kg on to your PC with no gain in strength. Just focus on getting under the bar faster.

If your feet go out sidewards too much your definately not doing it properly.

Koing

Hey Koing, I’m that obscene guy that can PC my 3RM front squat-did it with over 400 in my youth and now still at near 300. It really is a function of being a PC zealot, with an imbalanced body and undertrained legs.
But you said something that really interests me. I always tended to put my feet out a little wide, and lately, I did a video and noticed they are out far wider than ever-now they are like at PL back squat width.
I have no clue why this is, it is not intentional. Poor flexibility? Old age? Any ideas?
Sorry, Arnoud, not trying to hijack. Doc
Doc

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
I’m not power clean expert, but having a strong deadlift is a good way to get your power clean numbers up. More importantly, you’ll need to master the technique. You need to shrug, deadlift, upright row, etc. the weight in a well-timed manner. Start with lighter weights first so you can learn the most efficient way of moving the weight.[/quote]

Sorry. This is about as far away from correct as it gets. First off, deadlift will have little to no carry over to power clean. Second, simply combining DL with ‘shrug and upright row’ is an absurd oversimplification.

Here’s what you do to get a big power clean:

  1. Learn proper form (which the poster states he has done).
  2. Increase your (full/OL) back squat.
  3. Perform heavy clean and snatch pulls.
  4. Work your power clean. An effective program for PC is 5 x 5. Periodized 5 x 5, 3 x 3 followed by a few weeks of heavy singles works well for me.

Let’s try to have people who know the answers answer the questions?

[quote]SlammaJamma wrote:
The guy is talking about power cleans, not full cleans. Front squats are not going to help much beyond a certain point, and chances are you’re beyond that point. And there is really no correlation between your power clean and FS, the second pull of the clean, where the power is generated, is almost exclusively hips and the front squat legs.

There IS a correlation between your front squat and FULL clean. They say that you should be able to full clean what you can front squat for a triple (assuming you can pull it high enough).

I’m not saying that squats won’t help, but the reason oly lifters do a lot of squats is because they’re squatting the weight up in competition. Many of them acknowledge that beyond a certain point, heavy squatting is a waste of time. If you can’t pull it to waist (or even higher in the case of power cleans) height it doesn’t matter how strong your legs are.

In other words, get your hips and back stronger, a big front squat is not important.[/quote]

Some good points but squats are vital to all aspects of olympic lifting, not just the (clean) recovery. I’d submit that back squat contribute more to the performance of clean/power cleans than pulls or any OTHER exercise in an O-lifters program. Strong legs help the lifter keep position when moving the weight off the floor (1st pull).

The quads are THE prime-mover in the explosive move from the ‘power position’. The only portion of the lift (power clean) that is not PRIMARILY legs is second pull itself (in which the lifter should be fully extended and shrugging) and transition to receive the bar. Strong legs will also enable you to stop above parallel (as opposed to ‘riding’ the weight down to rock bottom) before recovery in the power clean.

So I’ll say it again. Back squats. Period. This is why most Eastern European’s (Primarily the Bulgarians) use the lifts and squat (front and back). No pulls. Certainly no DLs. Bread and butter. Snatch. Clean and Jerk. Squats. Everything else is noise.

Hey DS007, what’s going on? You make two posts, the second near flame level which contradicts the first. “Back squats. Period…No pulls…Everything else is noise.” In the other post you endorsed heavy snatch pulls and clean pulls.
Hey, for the most part I agree with you, do the basics! But the OP knows the basics, and wanted to hear if anything else might help.
BTW, Alexeev wasn’t so in love with back squats-he did plenty of fronts and mocked the lifters with huge back squats who couldn’t clean as much as he could. Doc