T Nation

German Volume Training

I’m sure many of you have at least heard of this classic. I have decided to give it a go for a little while, see what it does to my gains/conditioning.

Anyone have any experience wiht German volume training?

Gains?

Pros/cons?

Tips?

Thanks guys

Uv hit gold here bud, period. Gvt is coach Poliquins pet fav program and by god it works. I only use the advanced GVT which is layed out in detail here on tnation. I was accused of using steroids when I wasnt the first time I did the advanced gvt cause my muscles basically exploded. I would reccomend taking coaches advice and adding chains to the squats and presses.Unless ur an elite level conditioned athlete, Id reccomend doing a 7 day split with it instead of a 5 day as it demands alot from your CNS and connective tissue.

O ya 4got to talk about my fav thing about it/ I love training the vertical plane as it spreads out the shoulders and back and GVT worked better than anything iv ever tried, and I been training for 25 years. Defy convention and superset push presses with chains and band resisted pull or chinups together instead of bench like evbody else on upper body day, and lower chest volume to only maintanance levels. my first day on week one was push press w chains supersetted with wide grip pullups,band resisted(u can use weights around ur waist instead if u dont have bands)

Next week it was neutral grip ohead dumbell presses supersetted with weighted mid grip chins
I would do 4 sets of 6-8 reps of a chest exercise after the ohead pressing at the end of each press pull day, at the end my bench was better to say the least as improving ohead pressing power always carried over to benching but not vice versa.

Guy’s It’s the same thing with a different (Marketing strategy) Surge nubret a old school b.ber was a volume trainer.In the 1970ty’s this 25 set’s for chest thing hit the radar,plus train each muscle 3xper week.

I think to break-up the homostasis of training,this volume in moderation might be o.k. At lest you’ll loose some fat with the catabolic effect’s of volume training. john

[quote]sesumatse wrote:
Uv hit gold here bud, period. Gvt is coach Poliquins pet fav program and by god it works. I only use the advanced GVT which is layed out in detail here on tnation. I was accused of using steroids when I wasnt the first time I did the advanced gvt cause my muscles basically exploded. I would reccomend taking coaches advice and adding chains to the squats and presses.Unless ur an elite level conditioned athlete, Id reccomend doing a 7 day split with it instead of a 5 day as it demands alot from your CNS and connective tissue. [/quote]

Yea I have done it with shoulders, back, and arms so far this week.

Very challenging, and a massive pump! Also more sore than usual.

When I did GVT I gained a great deal of size. But interestingly enough when I went back to my regular training I was naturally not as strong on singles or doubles. But that is to be expected.

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]sesumatse wrote:
Uv hit gold here bud, period. Gvt is coach Poliquins pet fav program and by god it works. I only use the advanced GVT which is layed out in detail here on tnation. I was accused of using steroids when I wasnt the first time I did the advanced gvt cause my muscles basically exploded. I would reccomend taking coaches advice and adding chains to the squats and presses.Unless ur an elite level conditioned athlete, Id reccomend doing a 7 day split with it instead of a 5 day as it demands alot from your CNS and connective tissue. [/quote]

Yea I have done it with shoulders, back, and arms so far this week.

Very challenging, and a massive pump! Also more sore than usual.[/quote]

what routine are you using i found two gvt routines am thinking about doing a cycle of gvt before starting 5/3/1

[quote]docholliday7777 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]sesumatse wrote:
Uv hit gold here bud, period. Gvt is coach Poliquins pet fav program and by god it works. I only use the advanced GVT which is layed out in detail here on tnation. I was accused of using steroids when I wasnt the first time I did the advanced gvt cause my muscles basically exploded. I would reccomend taking coaches advice and adding chains to the squats and presses.Unless ur an elite level conditioned athlete, Id reccomend doing a 7 day split with it instead of a 5 day as it demands alot from your CNS and connective tissue. [/quote]

Yea I have done it with shoulders, back, and arms so far this week.

Very challenging, and a massive pump! Also more sore than usual.[/quote]

what routine are you using i found two gvt routines am thinking about doing a cycle of gvt before starting 5/3/1[/quote]

I’m just going 10x10 on one main exercise per body part, then like 4 different supplementary exercises for that body part, 3-4 sets each of 10-15 reps.

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]docholliday7777 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]sesumatse wrote:
Uv hit gold here bud, period. Gvt is coach Poliquins pet fav program and by god it works. I only use the advanced GVT which is layed out in detail here on tnation. I was accused of using steroids when I wasnt the first time I did the advanced gvt cause my muscles basically exploded. I would reccomend taking coaches advice and adding chains to the squats and presses.Unless ur an elite level conditioned athlete, Id reccomend doing a 7 day split with it instead of a 5 day as it demands alot from your CNS and connective tissue. [/quote]

Yea I have done it with shoulders, back, and arms so far this week.

Very challenging, and a massive pump! Also more sore than usual.[/quote]

what routine are you using i found two gvt routines am thinking about doing a cycle of gvt before starting 5/3/1[/quote]

I’m just going 10x10 on one main exercise per body part, then like 4 different supplementary exercises for that body part, 3-4 sets each of 10-15 reps.[/quote]

Sorry for not being clear I meant where did u find the lefts to perform because I read two different articles with different lifts…the rep and sets were the same just wanted to see what u were doing. Was i from an article or book

[quote]docholliday7777 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]docholliday7777 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]sesumatse wrote:
Uv hit gold here bud, period. Gvt is coach Poliquins pet fav program and by god it works. I only use the advanced GVT which is layed out in detail here on tnation. I was accused of using steroids when I wasnt the first time I did the advanced gvt cause my muscles basically exploded. I would reccomend taking coaches advice and adding chains to the squats and presses.Unless ur an elite level conditioned athlete, Id reccomend doing a 7 day split with it instead of a 5 day as it demands alot from your CNS and connective tissue. [/quote]

Yea I have done it with shoulders, back, and arms so far this week.

Very challenging, and a massive pump! Also more sore than usual.[/quote]

what routine are you using i found two gvt routines am thinking about doing a cycle of gvt before starting 5/3/1[/quote]

I’m just going 10x10 on one main exercise per body part, then like 4 different supplementary exercises for that body part, 3-4 sets each of 10-15 reps.[/quote]

Sorry for not being clear I meant where did u find the lefts to perform because I read two different articles with different lifts…the rep and sets were the same just wanted to see what u were doing. Was i from an article or book
[/quote]

Oh lol. I have just been doing what I feel like lol. So far I’ve done shoulders, backs, bis and tris. For shoulders I did 10x10 military barbell press, back I did 10x10 lat pull downs, tris were weighted dips 10x10, and bis were straight bar curl 10x10. And then all the supplemental exercises for each body part like I mentioned before.

I also used the clock to make sure I did break 60 seconds between each set on my 10x10s.

I chose the exercises myself based on what my weaknesses were at the time that would hit the target areas I wanted to improve. Coach says u can use whatever exercises u want just use big compound lifts like presses, deadlifts and squats. Btw, I only used the 10x5,10x4,10x3 reps protocol as 10x10 will not provide sufficient intensity(It is waay too light and will cause strength loss over time) for any trainer with over 5 yrs experience.

I chose push presses with chains as my upper body press movement on week one because well, its the heaviest biggest baddest ass overhead press move around,and damn it helps ur bench out.

It works best to superset push and pull movements that work through the same plane for example, vertical plane=push presses then chinups/ horizontal plane would be flat bench then bent rows/
Also, some things I did during this time that helped alot
1-Warmed up the shoulders with external rotation exercises before pressing days.
2-on the week where ur supposed to do 10x3 of the exercise,actually add 6 % to the target 10x3 weight and go for 10 sets of 1 focusing on maximum explosiveness with each single. Iv done 6 cycles of gvt and everytime I do this trick, when the 10x5 week for that exercise comes after u do the 10x1 of it, it makes your target weight of 10x5 feel rediculously light.
3-For your lower body day, alternate a deadlift and squat move. Week one make it front squats and week two make it deadlifts form a box. Yup do the ones that are the hardest and be rewarded for it, fuck the quarter squats and machines ass to calves front squats and bar to feet box deads,suffer and grow.
4-U must follow the schedule coach lays out and have two different weeks of different exercises that hit the same areas just in a slightly different way because this heavy high volume protocol will assuredly destroy u if you work those same exercises the very next week.

I wanted to increase my delt width and overhead pressing power so I used push presses on week 1 and then seated dumbell presses on week two for example.
For tris I used weighted dips on week one and wrong way pullovers on week two(cause it got my tris sore like no other move because of how it stretches out and activates the long head)for bis it was scott zottman curls on week one and week two it was 30 degree incline curls(choose 2 moves that target different areas of the same muscle and put one on one week and then the other on the next week)

The 10x10 will work great to burn fat, especially with limited rest periods but will not get u stronger.Im talking about the ADVANCED GVT not the 10x10!
Drop the military barbell and do the push press instead(The seated bbell military press has such a weak spot in the bottom you cannot recruit the high threshold motor units in the top of the movement where you are strongest. The push press overcomes this disadvantage and teaches the lifter how to explode and drive leg strenght through the torso then allows more weight to go through the weak spot and be locked out,then overloading the negative portion of the exercise as well on the descent.
Weighted chins and pullups will add so much more strength and muscle than pulldowns. Gvt weighted and band resisted pullups and chins with fat bars and see what happens…
What are your goals at this time exactly,are you strength training, after hypertrophy,or trying to burn bodyfat???

[quote]sesumatse wrote:
The 10x10 will work great to burn fat, especially with limited rest periods but will not get u stronger.Im talking about the ADVANCED GVT not the 10x10!
Drop the military barbell and do the push press instead(The seated bbell military press has such a weak spot in the bottom you cannot recruit the high threshold motor units in the top of the movement where you are strongest. The push press overcomes this disadvantage and teaches the lifter how to explode and drive leg strenght through the torso then allows more weight to go through the weak spot and be locked out,then overloading the negative portion of the exercise as well on the descent.
Weighted chins and pullups will add so much more strength and muscle than pulldowns. Gvt weighted and band resisted pullups and chins with fat bars and see what happens…
What are your goals at this time exactly,are you strength training, after hypertrophy,or trying to burn bodyfat???[/quote]

My goals are simply hypertrophy. I don’t give a shit about getting too much stronger…I max 405 on flat, deadlift 505 for 5 reps on deads, and squat 405 for reps…I’m 5’8, 200 lbs, and about 12% bf. I am simply trying to build more quality muscle, and this will come from time under tension.

Also, I am switching up my 10x10 exercise each time I do it, doing pull ups every time, or push press every time is boring and monotonous.

Also, the big thing with 10x10 is that you DON’T go “super light” like you guys are indicating. I’m still doing moderate to heavy weight for my 10x10’s…I just end up relying a lot on a spot (nothing wrong with that, you’re absolutely exhausting yourself) and if need be, closer to the end of the sets I end up rest pausing, but still completely the reps without lowering the weight.

Trying to get stronger and bodybuilding are two very different things, so I’m not concerned about benching 400 lbs every week, I’d rather get 275 lbs 15 times nice and controlled…I gurantee that you will get bigger and more quality muslces than trying to be a meathead and sling around as much weight as possible for minimal reps.

Wow ur doin something right then!!
For hypertrophy, I cant say enough about how much bands and chains have helped me especially in my former worst bodypart the triceps. They are so worth the small price u pay for them!! I seem to be different than most in that I grow everytime I go on a lower rep strength program and reps dont help as much except on delts lats and quads.

Its not GVT if you dont follow the program as coach reccomends. If you use different exercises, you cant apply the percentages to the weight ur using each week and see if your progressing or not and accumulative adaptation will not occur.
If your getting good hypertrophy from what your doing then definately keep on!!

The repetition of the advanced german volume training is its beauty.Week to week you know exactly what your goal number of reps is with exactly how much weight,its like getting ready for a fight after school and this new heavy weight ur afraid of is the bully whos ass u wanna destroy I love it.Im doing 10 sets of 5(50 total reps) with a weight I failed to get 10 sets of 4(40 reps total) with 4 weeks ago and I will or die tryin!Bam u fight the battle of ur life and u get it. So u end up doing 50 reps with a weight u only got 38 with 4 weeks ago. In one month uv upped your work capacity and work performed with the same weight by OVER 20 percent and that means hypertrophy thru increased time under tension with the same weight.

I cant say for me how the 10x 10 would work as Iv never done it but I hear it does make u grow too.
I have horrible endurance with sets of tens lol, I can do 3 sets of ten goin good then Il crash and burn HARD on the fourth and tremble while getting only 5 reps on the fourth but on my tenth set of 3 reps I can actually add 5 pounds sometimes and still get the reps.

The advanced GVT program is on here if u wanna check it out, and if u really want hypertrophy I would uber highly reccomend coach Thibadeaus HSS100 program wow that one worked for me I tell ya. Now uv got me curious about the 10x10 mwahaa

[quote]sesumatse wrote:
Wow ur doin something right then!!
For hypertrophy, I cant say enough about how much bands and chains have helped me especially in my former worst bodypart the triceps. They are so worth the small price u pay for them!! I seem to be different than most in that I grow everytime I go on a lower rep strength program and reps dont help as much except on delts lats and quads.

Its not GVT if you dont follow the program as coach reccomends. If you use different exercises, you cant apply the percentages to the weight ur using each week and see if your progressing or not and accumulative adaptation will not occur.
If your getting good hypertrophy from what your doing then definately keep on!!

The repetition of the advanced german volume training is its beauty.Week to week you know exactly what your goal number of reps is with exactly how much weight,its like getting ready for a fight after school and this new heavy weight ur afraid of is the bully whos ass u wanna destroy I love it.Im doing 10 sets of 5(50 total reps) with a weight I failed to get 10 sets of 4(40 reps total) with 4 weeks ago and I will or die tryin!Bam u fight the battle of ur life and u get it. So u end up doing 50 reps with a weight u only got 38 with 4 weeks ago. In one month uv upped your work capacity and work performed with the same weight by OVER 20 percent and that means hypertrophy thru increased time under tension with the same weight.

I cant say for me how the 10x 10 would work as Iv never done it but I hear it does make u grow too.
I have horrible endurance with sets of tens lol, I can do 3 sets of ten goin good then Il crash and burn HARD on the fourth and tremble while getting only 5 reps on the fourth but on my tenth set of 3 reps I can actually add 5 pounds sometimes and still get the reps.

The advanced GVT program is on here if u wanna check it out, and if u really want hypertrophy I would uber highly reccomend coach Thibadeaus HSS100 program wow that one worked for me I tell ya. Now uv got me curious about the 10x10 mwahaa[/quote]

Yea man I too often lift too heavy…letting my ego do the steering lol. But when I do get my head in the game and work with the high volume (still heavy, just not as heavy as I would go on normal work sets), I get massive pumps that have residual effects for days, and see growth almost instantly.

I definately do still go heavy at least every other week though. Like last week on flat bench I did 6 sets of 5-8 reps, staying between 275 and 345. I think its good to find that perfect mix of heavy and high volume training.

Im confused. I was reading an article earlier and it said “402” tempo… meaning 4 seconds up (1st rep), 0 down, and 2 seconds back up (2nd rep) and repeat 402 again right for the whole 10 reps yes?

How much weight am I supposed to use? I would assume it wouldn’t be 100% of my Max and instead a reduced amount yes?

[quote]RedBaron1981 wrote:
Im confused. I was reading an article earlier and it said “402” tempo… meaning 4 seconds up (1st rep), 0 down, and 2 seconds back up (2nd rep) and repeat 402 again right for the whole 10 reps yes?

How much weight am I supposed to use? I would assume it wouldn’t be 100% of my Max and instead a reduced amount yes?[/quote]

Correct about the tempo.

And as far as weght, you don’t want to fall below 60% of your 1RM. I’ve just been going by feel really, but definately keeping it heavy enough that every single set is heavy, including the first one. And I’m also not dropping the weight at all through out the 10x10’s. I’ll just have a spotter assist me or like today I ended up doing rest pause sets for my last 3 sets. It is insane how pumped and totally fatigued you get!

Thats it im sneaking in a 10x10 rest pause workout in soon just cause its radically different than anything im doin now!!Never done rest pause for higher reps hmm…

So basically this exercise wears you out and gives you immediate pump…but, since the weight isn’t your Max, I don’t get how it still promotes muscle growth. Doesn’t one have to always exceed previous weights to encourage growth? Does the 1 min rest ans lots of reps really give you growth despite the lack of Max lifts?