LOL@ anything being able to inhibit rainjack
[quote]fairbairn wrote:
Poliquin loves it, Waterbury hates it.[/quote]
Go figure…Waterbury hates anything that works well.
OVT is the best muscle and strength building program on this site. You have to eat plenty of food to see gains. Don’t be a pansy and try to lean out on this program. You’ll kill yourself in the process. You need food to recover each day.
Whoever gets “bored” on this program is from outterspace…HTF do you get bored on it?? Gains go through the roof from day 1. If you’re bored making incredible gains, stop lifting.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
jdrannin1 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Take some ZMA and Z-12. That should help with the waking up part. I usually took ibuprofen after a particularly hard training. The DOMS should go away after you get used to the volume.
I thought it was great. I loved the volume, and the rep range.
Probably the best gains I have made in the last couple of years.
Did you take the ibuprofen for the DOMS? It’s not a good idea. It’ll inhibit the inflammatory process which plays a role in building muscle.
I don’t buy into that crap. But thanks for asking. [/quote]
What dont you buy into exactly?
Hey guys,
Is this the program, or a sample?
If not, where can I find it? I’d like to give it a shot in a couple of months. I’m currently doing a “split for size” according to the “How to Design a Damn Good Program, Part 1” by Christian Thibaudeau. I’ll be doing that for 8 weeks, then I’ll do some strength work for 3 weeks, and then I want to try GVT.
Please advise.
Thanks,
-I
[quote]entheogens wrote:
Ok, I started German Volume Training last week. I had previously been doing Bill Starr’s 5X5 and thought a high volume program might be in order. First workout went fine. Yesterday I did Squats 10 X 10 and was so fried that I woke up in the middle of the night with a major case of DOMS in the legs, which kept me up for quite some time.
I don’t mind the pain, but I do worry about the effects of losing sleep. Wondering if I should modify or just switch to a different program altogether. Thoughts anyone?[/quote]
Consider ramping up your use of post workout active recovery techniques. I would highly suggest 1-2 15-20 minutes sessions of of contrast showers for one. (One immediately after consuming your PWO shake/meal and sometime later on in the day)
[quote]IvanTheTerrible wrote:
Hey guys,
Is this the program, or a sample?
If not, where can I find it? I’d like to give it a shot in a couple of months. I’m currently doing a “split for size” according to the “How to Design a Damn Good Program, Part 1” by Christian Thibaudeau. I’ll be doing that for 8 weeks, then I’ll do some strength work for 3 weeks, and then I want to try GVT.
Please advise.
Thanks,
-I
[/quote]
Anyone?
That’s the one. Give it a shot.
I think this program is god awful and cannot see the purpose of it all.
Many people, including AC, CW, EC, and CT, have pointed out the flaws in it.
One huge flaw is that it lends to postural and structural problems. In the first stage of the program, from what I remember, he prescribes supersetting 10 sets of squats (a quad dominant compound exercise) with NO hip dominant exericse (leg curls). I feel this can cause major problems for most people.
He also prescribes ten sets of chins supersetted with 10 sets of dumbbell bench presses. These are two exercises paired together that encourage internal rotating of the shoulder. There is almost nothing to counterbalance this within the program. Couple this with the fact that he has you do hardly any vertical pushing on the arm and shoulder day and a shitload of vertical pulling with pullups and you are just further fucking with your shoulders.
The program is boring as hell.
I do not see the point of volume for volume’s sake. If someone could explain it to me properly, I am open to hearing all about it, seriously! However, I do not see the point of lowering a load to 60% of 1RM to perform 10 sets of 10. Most people need >70% to see size gains. I am sure that there will be some muscle gain on this program, but I cannot see how this is an optimal way of doing it, considering the fatigue that accompanies this routine.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I think this program is god awful and cannot see the purpose of it all.
Many people, including AC, CW, EC, and CT, have pointed out the flaws in it.
[/quote]
You should probably strike Christain Thibaudeau from your above list (if that is who “CT” refers to). Earlier in this thread, he posted in support of German Volume Training.
First of all, an example GVT program Poliquin gives in one of his articles DOES include leg curls. This taken from www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm:
Day 2 - Legs and Abs
Exercise Sets Reps Tempo Rest Interval
A-1 Back Squats 10 10 4 0 2 0 90 sec
A-2 Lying Leg Curls 10 10 4 0 2 0 90 sec
B-1 Low-Cable Pull-Ins* 3 15 - 20 2 0 2 0 60 sec
B-2 Seated Calf Raises 3 15 - 20 2 0 2 0 60 sec
Second of all, the GVT program lasts 4 weeks. I could understand if you did this program often, but as an exceptional program for four weeks, is it likely to cause such damage?
Is boring always bad? Hell, before I began GVT, I was doing Bill Starr’s 5X5 over a period of two months. That “boring” program built me a lot of muscle.
He does use leg curls supersetted with squats. I think this is a bad idea because leg curls are not a hip dominant exercise and you are doing this with a very powerful quad dominant exercise, squats. From what I remember, GVT was 10 weeks long; one four week phase, a two week back off phase with lower volume high intensity, and then another four week phase of GVT.
My program is probably boring to most. I used 5x5 a la Bill Starr when I first started lifting and it was very effective. Boring is not always bad. Point taken.
But I am asking in all seriousness, what is the point of such volume for volume’s sake? I just want to know.
I’ve never gotten much out of the original GVT program, but have many personal friends who have made great progress on it; so I certainly won’t dismiss the program.
To know which group (‘responders’ or ‘non responders’) the OP falls into he’ll have to try it out for himself.
Secondly, just a few comments on the following:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
One huge flaw is that it lends to postural and structural problems. In the first stage of the program, from what I remember, he prescribes supersetting 10 sets of squats (a quad dominant compound exercise) with NO hip dominant exericse (leg curls). I feel this can cause major problems for most people.
He also prescribes ten sets of chins supersetted with 10 sets of dumbbell bench presses. These are two exercises paired together that encourage internal rotating of the shoulder. There is almost nothing to counterbalance this within the program. Couple this with the fact that he has you do hardly any vertical pushing on the arm and shoulder day and a shitload of vertical pulling with pullups and you are just further fucking with your shoulders.
[/quote]
I’ve read AC make the similar claims. Unfortunately, in this situation, he is as guilty as his critics who judge his abilities based on a single training phase (without keeping it in context of the larger plan).
Yes, according to some coaches GVT is not balanced, but as with most Poliquin programs you are only intended to perform the routine 6 times before overhauling it (not my recommendation, but Poliquin’s).
Knowing how slow the body is to adapt, do you really think repeating these workouts 6 times can could cause any type of structural damage?
Rippetoe’s Starting Strength program has a heavy emphasis on quad dominant exercises, upper body exercises favoring internal rotation, and is to be performed for countless months; yet I’ve never heard of a trainee using SS get decimated by it.
Again, this isn’t necessarily how I train, but wanted to point it out.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
But I am asking in all seriousness, what is the point of such volume for volume’s sake? I just want to know.
[/quote]
Possible benefits of lower intensity and volume could be:
-Deloading (give your nervous system and joints a break from lifting maximal loads)
-Strategic deconditioning (to “resensitize” your body to heavier load stimulus)
-Improved work capacity (Not everyone has access to sleds and ‘prowlers’)
Some you may buy into, others maybe not; and that’s fine.
My own training generally reassembles something that either Ian King, Dorian Yates, or Jason Ferruggia would come up with, so I’m not a ‘volume pusher’. That said I have used Pavel T and Joel Marion inspired volume programs to “break up the monotony” and found that when I returned to my normal training that I quickly returned to the weights I was previously using and in most cases I either set PR’s shortly afterwards, handled the same weight without feeling as tired, noticed I was leaner, or felt better because injuries finally healed.
Programs are just tools. None of them are perfect, but most still have upsides with their cons. You just have to know which to use for what effect.