T Nation

George Foreman's Punching Power

Off Topic
#1

I was chatting to my martial arts instructor, and we started wondering what was George Foreman’s punching power? Does anyone know of an objective way of measuring it? if so, what would his power have been in his prime?

Then, we got to comparing Foreman’s power to Tyson’s power (both in their prime). If you compare their records (victories vs. victories by KO), and it seemed Foreman had the slightly superior power, yet watching Tyson fights, I had the impression that Tyson had the superior power.

Now, Holyfield is the only fighter common to both Foreman and Tyson. But both of them were in different points in their career. So an accurate comparison can’t really be made based on Holyfield testimony (although if you can find his testimony, that’d be helpful, too).

To sum up, I’m looking for objective measurements of power for both Foreman, and Tyson.

Any comments?

#2

Look at how far the knockout punch traveled for each fighter. There are ‘phantom punches’ that Foreman has thrown that, when watching at full speed, you never see. But when you slow it down, the phantom was really a lethal uppercut that traveled about 2 inches yet knocked it mark out cold.

It’s probably all subjective, but for my money I don’t think there was ever a more powerful puncher than George Foreman.

#3

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Look at how far the knockout punch traveled for each fighter. There are ‘phantom punches’ that Foreman has thrown that, when watching at full speed, you never see. But when you slow it down, the phantom was really a lethal uppercut that traveled about 2 inches yet knocked it mark out cold.

It’s probably all subjective, but for my money I don’t think there was ever a more powerful puncher than George Foreman. [/quote]

I agree with this. In his prime, he not only had the agressiveness, but he had control as well. I have many of those old fights on tape (I just realized I don’t even own a VCR anymore), and Foreman intimidated so many because of the power he could generate. His endurance may not last for long, but for most people, he didn’t need much endurance when one punch could nearly end your life. Mike Tyson had power, but he also has one screwed up mentality. I personally would avoid a fist fight with either one of them, but Foreman would get my vote simply because of his control. He knew when to throw that punch that would lay you down…until Ali.

#4

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I agree with this. In his prime, he not only had the agressiveness, but he had control as well. I have many of those old fights on tape (I just realized I don’t even own a VCR anymore), and Foreman intimidated so many because of the power he could generate. His endurance may not last for long, but for most people, he didn’t need much endurance when one punch could nearly end your life. Mike Tyson had power, but he also has one screwed up mentality. I personally would avoid a fist fight with either one of them, but Foreman would get my vote simply because of his control. He knew when to throw that punch that would lay you down…until Ali.[/quote]

Yeah, Ali took a lot of Foreman’s punches. I think that has much to do with Ali’s current mental condition. Foreman get’s my vote.

#5 
 Well I am by no means an expert but I have been a fan of boxing for quite some time.
 I can only guess about this, of course.  Tyson was such a scary SOB nobody wanted to fight him.  Even when they were in the ring they didn't want to fight him.  They were intimidated and they had bad game plans because of it.  Buster Douglas changed that.  Don't get me wrong, Tyson could end the day in one punch easily not to mention his defensive skills which, in his prime, were considerable; something that he doesn't get enough credit for IMHO.

In his day Foreman was a Friggin intimidating MONSTER. One thing and ONE thing only allowed Ali to beat him: gameplan. Ali STILL took a beating with a defensive attitude.

 I was always impressed with Tyson but given the last 5 yrs or so I think toe to toe, in their prime, Foreman makes a short day of it.

I didn’t answer your question lol but these are my thoughts.

#6

most raw physical punching power? foreman or shavers…its a toss-up.

#7

did you see that movie “when we were kings” ? did you see the craters foreman was leaving in the bag ? i swear i felt it through the movie screen.

#8

uhmm…what’s the formula for computing power? mass x accelartaion? i think that’s right…

anyway, The Grillmaster probably just has the perfect combination of the two…and like the other guys said-he knows how to pick his shots.

hell, look at Butterben…he’s got some power, too…probably not comprable to Foreman, though…

#9

You can definately get equipment to measure the pounds per square inch of a punch or kick.

The only time I have seen a pro use one was Ray Sefo who is in K1.

The guy interviewing him on tv hit the pad as hard as he could, then Ray stepped up and got over 5 times the psi of the untrained guy.

I have forgotten the exact numbers though.

But this is when the guy gets to get set up just right and the target isn’t moving.

#10

Tyson vs. Foreman? Remember, F=massXacceleration, and while Foreman was bigger and stronger, I have never seen a heavyweight with a quicker punch than Tyson when he was 21 or so.

#11

Believe it or not, my father and I were discussing this same point (Foreman vs. Tyson) today. We both agreed that Foreman was more powerful for a number of reasons.

  1. Foreman destroyed much better fighters than Tyson ever fought, much less beat. The only two fighters Tyson ever fought who could claim any right to legendary status were Evander and Lennox. Evander took care of him when he still had some skills left and Lennox made a mockery of a washed up Tyson. Foreman beat Frazier with terrifying ferocity. Ali ruined himself taking the punishment in Zaire. He was never the same after that win.

  2. Tyson had no left hand threat. Foreman’s jab was bigger than most people’s straight right (or left in the case of Marciano- who may have been the strongest puncher ever pound for pound at 190)

  3. For a measure of pure knockout power, go back to the Buster Douglas fight and remember that Mike hit Buster and floored him in one of the middle rounds. He got up and won the fight. If Foreman lands that shot in his prime on anyone including Ali, they don’t get up and may not wake up for a while.

Foreman, hands down.

#12

I have watched the majority of foreman’s fight and pretty much all of Tyson fight. Its really had to say. Before Tyson got screwed over by Don king with him giving tyson trainers who didn’t know how to train and his tax attorney during his rape trial. He was as good as advertised. The guy who said tyson’s defense was considerable was right on the money. Tyson’s speed was incredible as well coupled with the fact that he can take a punch. If tyson in his prime took on foreman in his prime I give it to Tyson. Speed and Power (not to mention a great defense) made him unstoppable in his prime. By the time he fought Buster. he had new trainers. He stopped attacking the body like he used and became a head hunter. His defense became virtually non existent too.

But to answer your question I think they are both pretty much even. However, Tyson has an edge with his speed.

#13

My nod goes to Foreman. Try to get a hold of the tape of him against Joe Frazier and you will see what I mean.
Tyson in his prime was devastatingly fast and fought with a honed fury that was beautiful to watch but the edge in KO power still goes to Foreman. He can put a heavy weight out with his jab.

#14

[quote]Mad Titan wrote:
I have watched the majority of foreman’s fight and pretty much all of Tyson fight. Its really had to say. Before Tyson got screwed over by Don king with him giving tyson trainers who didn’t know how to train and his tax attorney during his rape trial. He was as good as advertised. The guy who said tyson’s defense was considerable was right on the money. Tyson’s speed was incredible as well coupled with the fact that he can take a punch. If tyson in his prime took on foreman in his prime I give it to Tyson. Speed and Power (not to mention a great defense) made him unstoppable in his prime. By the time he fought Buster. he had new trainers. He stopped attacking the body like he used and became a head hunter. His defense became virtually non existent too.

But to answer your question I think they are both pretty much even. However, Tyson has an edge with his speed.[/quote]

No no no, Forman would have been Tysons worst nightmare, Forman would muscle Tyson and would not back away but push forward. He would knock down Tyson repeditly until Tyson chose not to get up.
As far as who was a more devistating puncher. Forman hsd brute strength, Tyson hsd speed and violence of action. Tyson has a better one punch knockout, jarring flash knockdowns. Forman had punishing, pushing, smashing punches.

#15

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Look at how far the knockout punch traveled for each fighter. There are ‘phantom punches’ that Foreman has thrown that, when watching at full speed, you never see. But when you slow it down, the phantom was really a lethal uppercut that traveled about 2 inches yet knocked it mark out cold.

It’s probably all subjective, but for my money I don’t think there was ever a more powerful puncher than George Foreman. [/quote]

Hey just looked at the 2 punch combo he used to KO Michael Moorer-this coming from Foreman the jolly old man.

#16

Even outside of his prime, Foreman has incredible power. My favortie fight of his was the last time he won the title back in 97 (?) against Moorer. He got the crap beat out of him for ten rounds, then he throws this lazy-appearing cross, and Moorer turns into a ragdoll. Lucky? No. He knew when to hold onto that punch and when to throw it. Foreman, hands down.

#17

[quote]Chris (NZ) wrote:
You can definately get equipment to measure the pounds per square inch of a punch or kick.

The only time I have seen a pro use one was Ray Sefo who is in K1.

The guy interviewing him on tv hit the pad as hard as he could, then Ray stepped up and got over 5 times the psi of the untrained guy.

I have forgotten the exact numbers though.

But this is when the guy gets to get set up just right and the target isn’t moving.[/quote]

When I think of the machine that measures psi, I imagine Rocky IV. Ivan Drago had a 2000 psi punch. Now, I didn’t know what that meant, since I had no reference point. Then I saw a documentary on the discovery channel, about Matt Mullins return to martial arts competition (the one which showed the biomechanics of martial arts). They were using the psi machine also. He kicked the machine as hard as he could with a back leg roundhouse kick (not a Muay Thai roundhouse, but more a TKD roundhouse), and that read 2000 psi.

Now, there’s a reference point. Ivan Drago had the kind of power in a punch, that a full grown (probably ~170 pound) man had in a full contact kick. I thought that kind of power was purely fictional, but could it be that George Foreman’s power is similar to that (within a range of 300 psi)?

Something to ponder.

#18

[quote]deanosumo wrote:
Tyson vs. Foreman? Remember, F=massXacceleration, and while Foreman was bigger and stronger, I have never seen a heavyweight with a quicker punch than Tyson when he was 21 or so. [/quote]

That was what I thought too. I was watching one of his training videos back in the Cus D’Amato days, and his hand speed was just blinding. Even a featherweight would be jealous of such a speed.

#19

[quote]titanium350 wrote:
3. For a measure of pure knockout power, go back to the Buster Douglas fight and remember that Mike hit Buster and floored him in one of the middle rounds. He got up and won the fight. If Foreman lands that shot in his prime on anyone including Ali, they don’t get up and may not wake up for a while.
[/quote]

Okay, there’s some truth to that. But, what about Foreman’s fight with Ron Lyle? Foreman dropped Lyle once, and he got up and kept on coming, until the second knockdown, which put him away for good. But in that fight, Lyle put Foreman down twice, too.
So I think this argument could go either way.

#20

[quote]GoodKnight wrote:
As far as who was a more devistating puncher. Forman hsd brute strength, Tyson hsd speed and violence of action. Tyson has a better one punch knockout, jarring flash knockdowns. Forman had punishing, pushing, smashing punches.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly.