T Nation

George Dilman and Ryukyu Kempo Karate

There are things you can nullify by having your tongue in the wrong position, but a KO ain’t one of them.

Dillman has made a lot of money on young impressionable people for a lot of years. It would be nice if he were somehow exposed but I don’t see that happening. He’s going to be making money from this nonsense for many years to come.

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
There are things you can nullify by having your tongue in the wrong position, but a KO ain’t one of them.[/quote]

somebody should teach Stefan Struve about that.

Sento,

That is well worded.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Good counter points and personally I would not choose to have my kid in such a school either. I, like you, am an RMA guy through and through, and if what someone is teaching my kid doesn’t work, I’m pulling them out and going elsewhere.

But allow me to offer some counter points and explain my original point.

  1. not everyone does martial arts to become badass fighting machines. Some people want to compete in forms competitions (we call this XMA short for exhibition martial arts). Pretty much all of the application has been stripped from such training in exchange for maximal flashiness, athleticism, and “wow” factor. Then you’ve got people who are looking for disciplines, structure, and perhaps feel some draw towards a cultural identity/history; so they take up a TMA (traditional martial art). In many cases they wind up training with archaic weapons, and in some the applications of their techniques are far from practical, pragmatic or even effective. None of these apply to me personally, but far be it for me to tell others that they are wrong for training in martial arts for these reasons. Whether you want to argue that these should not be called martial arts is another discussion.
    [/quote]
    a.) I swore I was told XMA stood for extreme martial arts, but with an X-treme instead because…

b.) I don’t mean to be beating the “if it won’t work on the street” drum. I DO mean to be beating the “internal validity” drum when choosing a system. I am using “internal validity” to mean that the system/techniques have to at least work at what it claims to work for. If someone wants to study Spanish fencing and “compete” at Ren Fairs, or don a hakama and practice Iado I am all for it. I am only saying that it should be “real” Iado or fencing.

I could be a victim of conformation bias here but I have noticed that the “other” benefits(that you mentioned as well) seem to show up more often for students that are studying/training real/legitimate arts, even if those arts are unlikely to be useful. So, shitty, would never work in a sword fight, kenjitsu is useless as tits on a boar hog. However, studying under a decent kenjitsu master is just as “good”/useful in granting any of the non-combat benefits associated with martial training (character development, physical exercise, etc.) as anything more practical.

I agree. I often try to point out that “enjoyment” needs to be part of anyone’s martial arts experience. Other wise we are unlikely to commit the hours it takes to become proficient.

[quote]
3) the kid is 4. His neuromuscular system is realistically incapable of even learning how to execute most combatively effective techniques. Not to mention that his attention span is most likely measured in seconds and his interests are likely just as short lived. There is no telling whether he will actually stick with his training and as a result I don’t really see any problem with letting him do something that he enjoys. Now, if he sticks with it for a couple years and really seems to have a passion for MA (and tries some of his stuff out on some kids on the playground only to find that it doesn’t work), then yeah, maybe start worrying about stuff like combative effectiveness (in all likelihood he’ll probably gladly change schools in that case).[/quote]

I see what you are saying here. Part of the reason I am so firm in the “pull him out” camp is that I keep asking “what is the benefit to the child?” I have never shared the same room with Dillman, but I did not have a great impression of his claims prior to this thread and the opinions of others in this thread have added to it. I have no first hand knowledge of the instructor who is teaching the OP’s son, but since the OP has doubts I do as well.

I am just wondering “What the hell is the best case for the OP’s son?”

The scenario: An instructor(whom the OP has serious reservations about) who learned from and teaches the system of another man(whom a bunch of people have more than just reservations about, and whose system is being discussed as bullshit over brains at best and intentional smoke and mirrors at worst) is kind of “teaching”, because it is such a basic class, to a child who may be too young to learn martial arts anyway.

Are we hoping that the child gains skill in something shitty?

Is the best case that nothing is “learned”?

Do we hope the OP’s son grows to hate the class so he quits or is the better thing that he enjoys himself and keeps advancing in rank? If we are wishing for the latter what happens when he is a bit older and has “earned”/“achieved” a decent amount of rank? I know plenty of adults who have stayed in schools they considered inferior because they didn’t “want to go back to white belt” at a different school, I doubt children are less likely to feel that way.

Given that the OP sounds like he interested in his son having fun while doing a physical activity, and he should be congratulated on that, I suggest gymnastics(tumbling at that age) and swimming lessons(what kid doesn’t want to play in the water). Both are often available at YMCA’s for minimal costs. If something “more martial” is desired a pee wee/youth wrestling program, as jj-dude mentioned, is a great option if/ when it becomes available.

Then the “best case” is the child has fun while learning how to fall and roll, and how to swim. He has an athletic leg up on kids who sit at home. This can only help him if he starts wrestling, or if a better class is found in a couple years he will be in a good position to learn.

I hope that made sense.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
There are nerve attacks that work, in the pain-compliance or let go of me sense. They’re great underwater (there’s an environment I’ll bet you haven’t been training for). But what these guys pedal is a farce and a disservice to their students.
.[/quote]

I just skinny dip. No one ever wants to cuddle then.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]
Perhaps you’re losing your sex appeal?[/quote]

“losing” implies I had it at one point. That may not be accurate.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]idaho wrote:
[Good to see you back, Robert. insightful comments, as always. I was beginning to think Sandy had washed you away and since I am unable to send PM’s, I was thinking posting a BOLO on you.[/quote]

I am far inland. Sandy was a rainy night. I was worried about Irish and KMCNYC though.

As for the BOLO how would that go?

Be on the lookout for a well dressed chimp. Subject is to be considered armed and easily confused. Most likely seen around coffee.

Regards,

Robert A

EDIT: Thanks to Mod Jump’N Jack for his work.

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Dillman is a fraud. There is some truth to the notion that if you hit certain points on the human body it can result in a KO (the point of the chin for example or the carotid sinus), but most of Dillman’s stuff is just smoke and mirrors or the power of suggestion. Dillman and people like him only tend to “demonstrate” their stuff on their own students and if by chance someone talks them into demoing it on them and it doesn’t work they come out with nonsense like “oh, well your chi/ki just isn’t developed enough for me to be able to manipulate it”, or “oh, well you just aren’t trained enough for this to work on you”. My instructor has stood in front of Dillman himself and had him try one of his pressure point KO’s and it did not work.

This type of nonsensical “super natural” martial arts is quite frankly a disgrace to real martial artists.

Now, if you personally feel that your son is getting something beneficial out of the classes (self discipline, respect, better focus, a form of exercise that he enjoys doing, etc…) then fine; often times children’s martial arts is more about character building than it is about physical combative skills anyway.

But personally I would feel conflicted knowing that what the instructor was teaching my child was fake or at the very least less than optimal and could even be misleading him as to the nature of reality or his capabilities to defend himself. I would also be wary as a parent as these systems are notorious “black belt factories” (ask them how long it generally takes to earn a black belt, if it’s less than 6 years in any case then that’s a red flag, also look around and see if they have a bunch of under 18 year old black belts, another red flag) who will basically just sell people their black belt (i.e. you just keep paying them for the rank evaluations and they’ll keep promoting you/your child to the next rank, even if that person couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag). They tend to be about quantity and not quality.

Maybe it’s the only MA school in your area, or maybe the instructor is very good with kids and is known for developing moral, well adjusted students/members of society, or maybe you have checked out all of the schools and have decided that this one is the best choice (has the best vibe, your son has friends that go there, is the most convenient locationwise, etc…). If so, I’m not trying to make you change your mind or go against your gut. But, if you haven’t checked around to the other schools in your area you might want to do so.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.[/quote]

You are spot on with your analysis.

I spoke with Dan Severn who did a seminar that my son attended. He told me that he learned these many deadly pressure points before he fought against Tank Abbott in the UFC. He thought it might give him an edge. When he tried these deadly pressure points on Tank Abbott, Abbott didn’t flinch. Of course Dan went on to beat Tank but it was because of superior wrestling and had nothing to do with pressure points as they were just a waste of time.

People like to think that pressure points can work because they then think that they can be equal to big tough guys who actually train hard. It reminds me of other fraudulent advertising, like the magic diet pill instead of actually cutting back on calories and working out to lose weight.

In short, the people who are vulnerable to this type of scam are the very ones who actually need to train with a quality system and lift weights to gain some strength. Instead after a Dillman seminar they walk around thinking they’re invincible if they touch someone in just the right place. It would be funny if it were not so very pathetic.

Dillman is detestable and someone who does more damage than good as he not only gives martial arts a bad name, he also gives the weak a false confidence that can only get them hurt.[/quote]

ZEB,

Please tell me your son started doing the “Wipe armpits, then face” Dan Severn warm up after the seminar.

Tell me this even if it isn’t true.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Yes, that is exactly what he taught my son!

Um…no sorry he never mentioned this.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

ZEB,

Please tell me your son started doing the “Wipe armpits, then face” Dan Severn warm up after the seminar.

Tell me this even if it isn’t true.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Yes, that is exactly what he taught my son!

Um…no sorry he never mentioned this.
[/quote]

Tom Lawler remembers:

I just have this image of a high school student doing the [wipe armpit, wipe other armpit, THEN wipe face,] routine before basically mugging someone with a front headlock(although I think the front headlock was more Mark Coleman’s deal).

Feel free to join me in pretending that is what went down.

Regards,

Robert A

To the OP, this subject has been discussed a few times before. Just do a search for George Dilman. He’s nowhere near the expert that he is made out to be. But for a kids karate class he may be a decent enough teacher.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Dillman is a fraud. There is some truth to the notion that if you hit certain points on the human body it can result in a KO (the point of the chin for example or the carotid sinus), but most of Dillman’s stuff is just smoke and mirrors or the power of suggestion. Dillman and people like him only tend to “demonstrate” their stuff on their own students and if by chance someone talks them into demoing it on them and it doesn’t work they come out with nonsense like “oh, well your chi/ki just isn’t developed enough for me to be able to manipulate it”, or “oh, well you just aren’t trained enough for this to work on you”. My instructor has stood in front of Dillman himself and had him try one of his pressure point KO’s and it did not work.

This type of nonsensical “super natural” martial arts is quite frankly a disgrace to real martial artists.

Now, if you personally feel that your son is getting something beneficial out of the classes (self discipline, respect, better focus, a form of exercise that he enjoys doing, etc…) then fine; often times children’s martial arts is more about character building than it is about physical combative skills anyway.

But personally I would feel conflicted knowing that what the instructor was teaching my child was fake or at the very least less than optimal and could even be misleading him as to the nature of reality or his capabilities to defend himself. I would also be wary as a parent as these systems are notorious “black belt factories” (ask them how long it generally takes to earn a black belt, if it’s less than 6 years in any case then that’s a red flag, also look around and see if they have a bunch of under 18 year old black belts, another red flag) who will basically just sell people their black belt (i.e. you just keep paying them for the rank evaluations and they’ll keep promoting you/your child to the next rank, even if that person couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag). They tend to be about quantity and not quality.

Maybe it’s the only MA school in your area, or maybe the instructor is very good with kids and is known for developing moral, well adjusted students/members of society, or maybe you have checked out all of the schools and have decided that this one is the best choice (has the best vibe, your son has friends that go there, is the most convenient locationwise, etc…). If so, I’m not trying to make you change your mind or go against your gut. But, if you haven’t checked around to the other schools in your area you might want to do so.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.[/quote]

You are spot on with your analysis.

I spoke with Dan Severn who did a seminar that my son attended. He told me that he learned these many deadly pressure points before he fought against Tank Abbott in the UFC. He thought it might give him an edge. When he tried these deadly pressure points on Tank Abbott, Abbott didn’t flinch. Of course Dan went on to beat Tank but it was because of superior wrestling and had nothing to do with pressure points as they were just a waste of time.

People like to think that pressure points can work because they then think that they can be equal to big tough guys who actually train hard. It reminds me of other fraudulent advertising, like the magic diet pill instead of actually cutting back on calories and working out to lose weight.

In short, the people who are vulnerable to this type of scam are the very ones who actually need to train with a quality system and lift weights to gain some strength. Instead after a Dillman seminar they walk around thinking they’re invincible if they touch someone in just the right place. It would be funny if it were not so very pathetic.

Dillman is detestable and someone who does more damage than good as he not only gives martial arts a bad name, he also gives the weak a false confidence that can only get them hurt.[/quote]

Come on now Zeb, I know we’ve discussed this before. You are giving Dan Severn experience with Tank Abbott way too much credit of being the definitive test of nerve attacks. To begin with Dan Severn was a Greco Roman wrestler. So his expertise and training was not in martial arts where he would have spent years working to develop a skill set that would have been useful for Tuite.

Next major flaw in your theory is your low opinion of Tank Abbott. Have you actually seen the beating Dan Severn gave him? Severn repeatedly elbowed him in the back of the head and couldn’t put him out. Tank is one of those people you could hit in the head with a baseball bat or shoot and it might not slow him down much.

My point is just because something doesn’t work very well on someone like that it doesn’t mean something is useless. Some people are just hard as nails and it takes a lot of extra effort to put them away.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Next major flaw in your theory is your low opinion of Tank Abbott. Have you actually seen the beating Dan Severn gave him? Severn repeatedly elbowed him in the back of the head and couldn’t put him out. Tank is one of those people you could hit in the head with a baseball bat or shoot and it might not slow him down much.

My point is just because something doesn’t work very well on someone like that it doesn’t mean something is useless. Some people are just hard as nails and it takes a lot of extra effort to put them away.
[/quote]

I think the fact Maurice Smith and Vitor Belfort failed to truly KO him, that took Pedro Rizzo, is even more a testament to Tank’s durability.

For the record, I think planning on using a baseball bat or gun on anyone nicknamed “Tank” is probably a sound strategy. Sort of like not being able to cry about getting stuck if you decide to wrestle with someone called “The Blade”.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
There are things you can nullify by having your tongue in the wrong position, but a KO ain’t one of them.[/quote]

I think it can make it more difficult. Say a smoking hot chic has her tongue up my ass, I’m pretty sure I’d have trouble knocking her out…or finding the motivation to do so.

[quote]ArcaneCocaine wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
There are things you can nullify by having your tongue in the wrong position, but a KO ain’t one of them.[/quote]

I think it can make it more difficult. Say a smoking hot chic has her tongue up my ass, I’m pretty sure I’d have trouble knocking her out…or finding the motivation to do so.[/quote]

That reminds me of this one time in Tijuana…

i was just absolutely shocked that a guest in dillman’s school would submit to
his 'knock me out without hitting the person" failed to laugh out loud when
nothing happened…

how are guys like this person maintain a job…?

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Dillman is a fraud. There is some truth to the notion that if you hit certain points on the human body it can result in a KO (the point of the chin for example or the carotid sinus), but most of Dillman’s stuff is just smoke and mirrors or the power of suggestion. Dillman and people like him only tend to “demonstrate” their stuff on their own students and if by chance someone talks them into demoing it on them and it doesn’t work they come out with nonsense like “oh, well your chi/ki just isn’t developed enough for me to be able to manipulate it”, or “oh, well you just aren’t trained enough for this to work on you”. My instructor has stood in front of Dillman himself and had him try one of his pressure point KO’s and it did not work.

This type of nonsensical “super natural” martial arts is quite frankly a disgrace to real martial artists.

Now, if you personally feel that your son is getting something beneficial out of the classes (self discipline, respect, better focus, a form of exercise that he enjoys doing, etc…) then fine; often times children’s martial arts is more about character building than it is about physical combative skills anyway.

But personally I would feel conflicted knowing that what the instructor was teaching my child was fake or at the very least less than optimal and could even be misleading him as to the nature of reality or his capabilities to defend himself. I would also be wary as a parent as these systems are notorious “black belt factories” (ask them how long it generally takes to earn a black belt, if it’s less than 6 years in any case then that’s a red flag, also look around and see if they have a bunch of under 18 year old black belts, another red flag) who will basically just sell people their black belt (i.e. you just keep paying them for the rank evaluations and they’ll keep promoting you/your child to the next rank, even if that person couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag). They tend to be about quantity and not quality.

Maybe it’s the only MA school in your area, or maybe the instructor is very good with kids and is known for developing moral, well adjusted students/members of society, or maybe you have checked out all of the schools and have decided that this one is the best choice (has the best vibe, your son has friends that go there, is the most convenient locationwise, etc…). If so, I’m not trying to make you change your mind or go against your gut. But, if you haven’t checked around to the other schools in your area you might want to do so.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.[/quote]

You are spot on with your analysis.

I spoke with Dan Severn who did a seminar that my son attended. He told me that he learned these many deadly pressure points before he fought against Tank Abbott in the UFC. He thought it might give him an edge. When he tried these deadly pressure points on Tank Abbott, Abbott didn’t flinch. Of course Dan went on to beat Tank but it was because of superior wrestling and had nothing to do with pressure points as they were just a waste of time.

People like to think that pressure points can work because they then think that they can be equal to big tough guys who actually train hard. It reminds me of other fraudulent advertising, like the magic diet pill instead of actually cutting back on calories and working out to lose weight.

In short, the people who are vulnerable to this type of scam are the very ones who actually need to train with a quality system and lift weights to gain some strength. Instead after a Dillman seminar they walk around thinking they’re invincible if they touch someone in just the right place. It would be funny if it were not so very pathetic.

Dillman is detestable and someone who does more damage than good as he not only gives martial arts a bad name, he also gives the weak a false confidence that can only get them hurt.[/quote]

Come on now Zeb, I know we’ve discussed this before. You are giving Dan Severn experience with Tank Abbott way too much credit of being the definitive test of nerve attacks. To begin with Dan Severn was a Greco Roman wrestler. So his expertise and training was not in martial arts where he would have spent years working to develop a skill set that would have been useful for Tuite.

Next major flaw in your theory is your low opinion of Tank Abbott. Have you actually seen the beating Dan Severn gave him? Severn repeatedly elbowed him in the back of the head and couldn’t put him out. Tank is one of those people you could hit in the head with a baseball bat or shoot and it might not slow him down much.

My point is just because something doesn’t work very well on someone like that it doesn’t mean something is useless. Some people are just hard as nails and it takes a lot of extra effort to put them away.

[/quote]

Dillman is indeed worse than useless. He misleads people and sets them up for a terrible beating. The very people who need to be able to defend themselves the most are further harmed.

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
There are nerve attacks that work, in the pain-compliance or let go of me sense. They’re great underwater (there’s an environment I’ll bet you haven’t been training for). But what these guys pedal is a farce and a disservice to their students.
.[/quote]

I just skinny dip. No one ever wants to cuddle then.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Good to see you back, Robert A.
[/quote]

x2 ;))

[quote]privatemedical wrote:
i started taking my 4 year old son at a Ryukyu Kempo Karate school. For him, its perfect.

but i started doing some reading on pressure point knockouts and other things about Dillman. I find some of the claims hard to believe. Just wondering if anyone here has experience with pressure point knockouts.

[/quote]

Been around a lot of fighters who fought in and out of the ring exchanging experiences.Never heard anything about pressure point knockouts except pressing on the neck arteries.

I choked a lot of people out via blood choke or guillotine choke,but thats something else.

Your best bet is violently hitting the jaw causing twisting the head aka classical boxing knockout.

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Dillman is a fraud. There is some truth to the notion that if you hit certain points on the human body it can result in a KO (the point of the chin for example or the carotid sinus), but most of Dillman’s stuff is just smoke and mirrors or the power of suggestion. Dillman and people like him only tend to “demonstrate” their stuff on their own students and if by chance someone talks them into demoing it on them and it doesn’t work they come out with nonsense like “oh, well your chi/ki just isn’t developed enough for me to be able to manipulate it”, or “oh, well you just aren’t trained enough for this to work on you”. My instructor has stood in front of Dillman himself and had him try one of his pressure point KO’s and it did not work.

This type of nonsensical “super natural” martial arts is quite frankly a disgrace to real martial artists.

Now, if you personally feel that your son is getting something beneficial out of the classes (self discipline, respect, better focus, a form of exercise that he enjoys doing, etc…) then fine; often times children’s martial arts is more about character building than it is about physical combative skills anyway.

But personally I would feel conflicted knowing that what the instructor was teaching my child was fake or at the very least less than optimal and could even be misleading him as to the nature of reality or his capabilities to defend himself. I would also be wary as a parent as these systems are notorious “black belt factories” (ask them how long it generally takes to earn a black belt, if it’s less than 6 years in any case then that’s a red flag, also look around and see if they have a bunch of under 18 year old black belts, another red flag) who will basically just sell people their black belt (i.e. you just keep paying them for the rank evaluations and they’ll keep promoting you/your child to the next rank, even if that person couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag). They tend to be about quantity and not quality.

Maybe it’s the only MA school in your area, or maybe the instructor is very good with kids and is known for developing moral, well adjusted students/members of society, or maybe you have checked out all of the schools and have decided that this one is the best choice (has the best vibe, your son has friends that go there, is the most convenient locationwise, etc…). If so, I’m not trying to make you change your mind or go against your gut. But, if you haven’t checked around to the other schools in your area you might want to do so.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.[/quote]

You are spot on with your analysis.

I spoke with Dan Severn who did a seminar that my son attended. He told me that he learned these many deadly pressure points before he fought against Tank Abbott in the UFC. He thought it might give him an edge. When he tried these deadly pressure points on Tank Abbott, Abbott didn’t flinch. Of course Dan went on to beat Tank but it was because of superior wrestling and had nothing to do with pressure points as they were just a waste of time.

People like to think that pressure points can work because they then think that they can be equal to big tough guys who actually train hard. It reminds me of other fraudulent advertising, like the magic diet pill instead of actually cutting back on calories and working out to lose weight.

In short, the people who are vulnerable to this type of scam are the very ones who actually need to train with a quality system and lift weights to gain some strength. Instead after a Dillman seminar they walk around thinking they’re invincible if they touch someone in just the right place. It would be funny if it were not so very pathetic.

Dillman is detestable and someone who does more damage than good as he not only gives martial arts a bad name, he also gives the weak a false confidence that can only get them hurt.[/quote]

Come on now Zeb, I know we’ve discussed this before. You are giving Dan Severn experience with Tank Abbott way too much credit of being the definitive test of nerve attacks. To begin with Dan Severn was a Greco Roman wrestler. So his expertise and training was not in martial arts where he would have spent years working to develop a skill set that would have been useful for Tuite.

Next major flaw in your theory is your low opinion of Tank Abbott. Have you actually seen the beating Dan Severn gave him? Severn repeatedly elbowed him in the back of the head and couldn’t put him out. Tank is one of those people you could hit in the head with a baseball bat or shoot and it might not slow him down much.

My point is just because something doesn’t work very well on someone like that it doesn’t mean something is useless. Some people are just hard as nails and it takes a lot of extra effort to put them away.

[/quote]

Tank Abott has been beaten enough times,so we know what works against him.He was numerous times punched out and choked out.

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]privatemedical wrote:
i started taking my 4 year old son at a Ryukyu Kempo Karate school. For him, its perfect.

but i started doing some reading on pressure point knockouts and other things about Dillman. I find some of the claims hard to believe. Just wondering if anyone here has experience with pressure point knockouts.

[/quote]

Been around a lot of fighters who fought in and out of the ring exchanging experiences.Never heard anything about pressure point knockouts except pressing on the neck arteries.

I choked a lot of people out via blood choke or guillotine choke,but thats something else.

Your best bet is violently hitting the jaw causing twisting the head aka classical boxing knockout. [/quote]

A blow to the carotid just under the ear can sometimes get a “vagal response”, but that is a similar mechanism to a choke.

I am trying to remember where I heard it first but “The whole neck is a Dim Mak point”. It has a lot of validity. Squeeze the arteries, I pass out. Hit the carotid sinus(under the ear) and my blood pressure might drop enough so that I drop too. Hit the trachea(front of the “throat”/wind pipe) and I am going down, and I may not get up. Hit me at the base of the skull and I may go out, and it might be “coloring books for Christmas” from here on out. Jam your thumb behind my wind pipe and the gag reflex from the esophagus plus the wind pipe obstruction will get a result. Same move, but on the carotid sheath will usually cause enough pain to make me deal with it rather than defend your real attack. Just pressing on the anterior scalene muscle can get a decent result. There are plenty more.

As far as “pressure points”, I remember someone telling me that “You cannot put Chi in the eyes or the testicles, that is why they are so vulnerable.” I thought they were good targets because they combined smooshy with lots of nerves, but he looked legit as hell in his Gung Fu uniform, so I will just put it out there.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]privatemedical wrote:
i started taking my 4 year old son at a Ryukyu Kempo Karate school. For him, its perfect.

but i started doing some reading on pressure point knockouts and other things about Dillman. I find some of the claims hard to believe. Just wondering if anyone here has experience with pressure point knockouts.

[/quote]

Been around a lot of fighters who fought in and out of the ring exchanging experiences.Never heard anything about pressure point knockouts except pressing on the neck arteries.

I choked a lot of people out via blood choke or guillotine choke,but thats something else.

Your best bet is violently hitting the jaw causing twisting the head aka classical boxing knockout. [/quote]

A blow to the carotid just under the ear can sometimes get a “vagal response”, but that is a similar mechanism to a choke.

I am trying to remember where I heard it first but “The whole neck is a Dim Mak point”. It has a lot of validity. Squeeze the arteries, I pass out. Hit the carotid sinus(under the ear) and my blood pressure might drop enough so that I drop too. Hit the trachea(front of the “throat”/wind pipe) and I am going down, and I may not get up. Hit me at the base of the skull and I may go out, and it might be “coloring books for Christmas” from here on out. Jam your thumb behind my wind pipe and the gag reflex from the esophagus plus the wind pipe obstruction will get a result. Same move, but on the carotid sheath will usually cause enough pain to make me deal with it rather than defend your real attack. Just pressing on the anterior scalene muscle can get a decent result. There are plenty more.

As far as “pressure points”, I remember someone telling me that “You cannot put Chi in the eyes or the testicles, that is why they are so vulnerable.” I thought they were good targets because they combined smooshy with lots of nerves, but he looked legit as hell in his Gung Fu uniform, so I will just put it out there.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Discussion about targets is like an NBA game.All players agree its the basket.Now which team will put in the ball more times in 48 minuts is altogether another thing.

Stay strong! ;))