Genetics, Bodybuilding, and Shoulder Width

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Waist size is genetic. You can only get it as small as your genetic structure allows. [/quote]

^Exactly, and nothing can change that. Still, we’re talking about bone structure when we discuss wide/narrow hips or clavicles. The level of leanness attained for contests will allow you to truly see just where your hip bones are. However, the average gym folks (or even the larger variety who have no interest in ever dieting down) will sometimes complain about their thick waists, when in reality, unless they’re willing to cut a bit and get to the point of seeing how wide their hip bones really are, it’s nothing more than an excuse for being pudgy IMO. Yes, you can have very developed obliques, but no one ever mistakes muscular obliques on a lean trainer for fat.

(waiting for people to pounce on me for this one -lol)

S[/quote]

My waist was much smaller than I imagined when I first dieted down for my first show. I have been as big as a 40 waist in pants and at the time of the first show I weighed in at 248. Size 33 waist were falling off me and I still wasn’t as lean as I needed to be.

Makes sense though because when I was playing ball and sitting around 235 pretty damn lean due to all the running I was wearing 32 pants and had to use a belt.

22

heath doesn’t seem to have that great of clavicle width, but he’s done pretty decent.

23

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
You’d be surprised how many trainees whined about their poor V-Tapers until they finally bit the bullet, dieted down, and realized that they actually had a much narrower waist than they suspected!

S[/quote]

Yeah, when I finally got serious about my diet and lost weight, it somehow made my clavicles grow wider and my hipbones smaller. I had no idea caloric restriction could remodel the skeleton like that. ;^)

24

My goal was to have a v-taper whether I was dieted down or not.

25

Thanks for the replies, guys. I really appreciate all of the constructive comments.

For the record, I’m not cursing my genetics. I accepted what I was born with a long time ago, I’m merely trying to work with it and see how or what everyone else has done about it. I have strong points, I have weak points - just like (most) everyone else. My shoulders are 54", and my waist 34". The problem is that I’m 6’ 9", so it’s not nearly as large as I would like it to be for my height. However, I’ve been training and eating (seriously/intelligently) for about 10 months now; it’s not as if I’ve been pounding away at it for years with no results.

The purpose of this thread was to gain insight as to what I should be focusing on now to see the results I’d like to see in 5 years, and subsequently 10. You guys have done just that. Thanks.

26

6’9’'? Are you a pro basketball player or some such? Damn.

27

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Waist size is genetic. You can only get it as small as your genetic structure allows. [/quote]

^Exactly, and nothing can change that. Still, we’re talking about bone structure when we discuss wide/narrow hips or clavicles. The level of leanness attained for contests will allow you to truly see just where your hip bones are. However, the average gym folks (or even the larger variety who have no interest in ever dieting down) will sometimes complain about their thick waists, when in reality, unless they’re willing to cut a bit and get to the point of seeing how wide their hip bones really are, it’s nothing more than an excuse for being pudgy IMO. Yes, you can have very developed obliques, but no one ever mistakes muscular obliques on a lean trainer for fat.

(waiting for people to pounce on me for this one -lol)

S[/quote]

My waist was much smaller than I imagined when I first dieted down for my first show. I have been as big as a 40 waist in pants and at the time of the first show I weighed in at 248. Size 33 waist were falling off me and I still wasn’t as lean as I needed to be.

Makes sense though because when I was playing ball and sitting around 235 pretty damn lean due to all the running I was wearing 32 pants and had to use a belt.[/quote]

Agreed with stu. Gotta diet down to know. For me. I was tiny no muscle or fat at 155 and my waist measured 30.5 so good chance it will never be that smal as spinal erector growth and some ab growth I imagine dieted down 31 or slightly above would be as good as my structure would allow.

A buddy I lift with has the weirdest fat distribution. Guy looks massive and has been cutting. Huge arms massive chest. Yet no real separation yet still plenty to lose but his waist is at 30 inch. He said that’s where he drops a lot of inches first then it stall and won’t get smaller. Seems the opposite of most.

28

look through zraw’s posts and find his medial delt training techniques, they all work really well

29

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
look through zraw’s posts and find his medial delt training techniques, they all work really well[/quote]

You mean JMs techniques :wink:

30

Guys at my gym are afraid of deadlifting because " it will make your waist too wide". Can lifting in any style or capacity change your bone structure? Enough to notice?

31

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
Guys at my gym are afraid of deadlifting because " it will make your waist too wide". Can lifting in any style or capacity change your bone structure? Enough to notice?[/quote]

Not unless you are breaking bones and remodeling

32

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
look through zraw’s posts and find his medial delt training techniques, they all work really well[/quote]

You mean JMs techniques ;)[/quote]

My thoughts exactly.

33

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Zooguido wrote:
PX - In your own personal experience, how did you lift to achieve your shoulders? Did they just start popping out when you started lifting or did you have to hammer them and really focus on them specifically to get them to grow? What would you recommend to anyone else looking to achieve large shoulders?

CT - Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. And wow. That is one hell of a transformation by Yates.[/quote]

Twice a week training and a shit load of food and patience is how you build soccer ball shoulders.[/quote]

Another question, PX - what sort of loads do you work with when training your shoulders twice a week? Normally, a shoulder session for me would go like:

DB Overhead Press: 5x6-10
Cable Lateral Raises: 4x8-12
DB Lateral Raises: 4x8-12
Rear Delt Machine Flies: 4x20
Cable Flies (anterior delt): 3x20-30
2 JM Destroyer Sets for Rear Delts, 60/40
Shrugs: 4x8-12, 3s hold

That takes me between 60-75 minutes, given the day and the gym traffic.

Should I lower training time and intensity to as much as I can get done in 30-45 minutes if I’m training them twice a week? I’ve never trained a body part twice a week. Would something like this be okay? Could you give me an example of what you would do?

Shoulder Day 1 (“strength” day?)
DB Overhead Press 5x6 (work up to 90% of 6rm-ish)
DB Lateral Raises 4x10
Cable Lateral Raises 4x10
Machine Rear Delt Flies: 4x20

Shoulder Day 2 (rep day?)
DB Overhead Press 4x10 (work up to 80% 10RM-ish?)
DB Lateral Raises 4x12
Machine Rear Delt Flies: 4x20
2 JM Destroyer Sets: 50/35

Does that seem logical or just stupid?

34

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
look through zraw’s posts and find his medial delt training techniques, they all work really well[/quote]

You mean JMs techniques ;)[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. [/quote]
nah was referring to using tiny DBs and going slow on the negatives

35

[quote]Zooguido wrote:

Another question, PX - what sort of loads do you work with when training your shoulders twice a week? Normally, a shoulder session for me would go like:

DB Overhead Press: 5x6-10
Cable Lateral Raises: 4x8-12
DB Lateral Raises: 4x8-12
Rear Delt Machine Flies: 4x20
Cable Flies (anterior delt): 3x20-30
2 JM Destroyer Sets for Rear Delts, 60/40
Shrugs: 4x8-12, 3s hold

That takes me between 60-75 minutes, given the day and the gym traffic.

Should I lower training time and intensity to as much as I can get done in 30-45 minutes if I’m training them twice a week? I’ve never trained a body part twice a week. Would something like this be okay? Could you give me an example of what you would do?

Shoulder Day 1 (“strength” day?)
DB Overhead Press 5x6 (work up to 90% of 6rm-ish)
DB Lateral Raises 4x10
Cable Lateral Raises 4x10
Machine Rear Delt Flies: 4x20

Shoulder Day 2 (rep day?)
DB Overhead Press 4x10 (work up to 80% 10RM-ish?)
DB Lateral Raises 4x12
Machine Rear Delt Flies: 4x20
2 JM Destroyer Sets: 50/35

Does that seem logical or just stupid?[/quote]

I think you are doing too much random shit. I think you are spreading yourself over too many different movements and tracking progress may be difficult. try scaling that back a little and focus more on the movement and the weight used than how many movements you are doing.

I normally start with an overhead press movement no matter what. I sue this as a general warm up and also do some biceps or triceps in between sets.

I then have at least a good side lateral movement and shrugs. I don’t always do rear delts here as I sometimes add them n on back day in between sets.

In general, my shoulder day is about 4 exercises; the overhead press, the side lateral raise, shrugs and a high incline press for front delts.

36

I think 6 ways are the best thing to do at the end of every shoulder workout. They are amazing.

37

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Zooguido wrote:

Another question, PX - what sort of loads do you work with when training your shoulders twice a week? Normally, a shoulder session for me would go like:

DB Overhead Press: 5x6-10
Cable Lateral Raises: 4x8-12
DB Lateral Raises: 4x8-12
Rear Delt Machine Flies: 4x20
Cable Flies (anterior delt): 3x20-30
2 JM Destroyer Sets for Rear Delts, 60/40
Shrugs: 4x8-12, 3s hold

That takes me between 60-75 minutes, given the day and the gym traffic.

Should I lower training time and intensity to as much as I can get done in 30-45 minutes if I’m training them twice a week? I’ve never trained a body part twice a week. Would something like this be okay? Could you give me an example of what you would do?

Shoulder Day 1 (“strength” day?)
DB Overhead Press 5x6 (work up to 90% of 6rm-ish)
DB Lateral Raises 4x10
Cable Lateral Raises 4x10
Machine Rear Delt Flies: 4x20

Shoulder Day 2 (rep day?)
DB Overhead Press 4x10 (work up to 80% 10RM-ish?)
DB Lateral Raises 4x12
Machine Rear Delt Flies: 4x20
2 JM Destroyer Sets: 50/35

Does that seem logical or just stupid?[/quote]

I think you are doing too much random shit. I think you are spreading yourself over too many different movements and tracking progress may be difficult. try scaling that back a little and focus more on the movement and the weight used than how many movements you are doing.

I normally start with an overhead press movement no matter what. I sue this as a general warm up and also do some biceps or triceps in between sets.

I then have at least a good side lateral movement and shrugs. I don’t always do rear delts here as I sometimes add them n on back day in between sets.

In general, my shoulder day is about 4 exercises; the overhead press, the side lateral raise, shrugs and a high incline press for front delts.

[/quote]

That makes sense. You do this twice a week, yes?

38

[quote]Zooguido wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Zooguido wrote:

Another question, PX - what sort of loads do you work with when training your shoulders twice a week? Normally, a shoulder session for me would go like:

DB Overhead Press: 5x6-10
Cable Lateral Raises: 4x8-12
DB Lateral Raises: 4x8-12
Rear Delt Machine Flies: 4x20
Cable Flies (anterior delt): 3x20-30
2 JM Destroyer Sets for Rear Delts, 60/40
Shrugs: 4x8-12, 3s hold

That takes me between 60-75 minutes, given the day and the gym traffic.

Should I lower training time and intensity to as much as I can get done in 30-45 minutes if I’m training them twice a week? I’ve never trained a body part twice a week. Would something like this be okay? Could you give me an example of what you would do?

Shoulder Day 1 (“strength” day?)
DB Overhead Press 5x6 (work up to 90% of 6rm-ish)
DB Lateral Raises 4x10
Cable Lateral Raises 4x10
Machine Rear Delt Flies: 4x20

Shoulder Day 2 (rep day?)
DB Overhead Press 4x10 (work up to 80% 10RM-ish?)
DB Lateral Raises 4x12
Machine Rear Delt Flies: 4x20
2 JM Destroyer Sets: 50/35

Does that seem logical or just stupid?[/quote]

I think you are doing too much random shit. I think you are spreading yourself over too many different movements and tracking progress may be difficult. try scaling that back a little and focus more on the movement and the weight used than how many movements you are doing.

I normally start with an overhead press movement no matter what. I sue this as a general warm up and also do some biceps or triceps in between sets.

I then have at least a good side lateral movement and shrugs. I don’t always do rear delts here as I sometimes add them n on back day in between sets.

In general, my shoulder day is about 4 exercises; the overhead press, the side lateral raise, shrugs and a high incline press for front delts.

[/quote]

That makes sense. You do this twice a week, yes?[/quote]

Usually. I just really like training shoulders. Shoulders and chest are like vacations to me.

My time in the gym often isn’t more than an hour unless I am doing two a days.

39

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Zooguido wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Zooguido wrote:

Another question, PX - what sort of loads do you work with when training your shoulders twice a week? Normally, a shoulder session for me would go like:

DB Overhead Press: 5x6-10
Cable Lateral Raises: 4x8-12
DB Lateral Raises: 4x8-12
Rear Delt Machine Flies: 4x20
Cable Flies (anterior delt): 3x20-30
2 JM Destroyer Sets for Rear Delts, 60/40
Shrugs: 4x8-12, 3s hold

That takes me between 60-75 minutes, given the day and the gym traffic.

Should I lower training time and intensity to as much as I can get done in 30-45 minutes if I’m training them twice a week? I’ve never trained a body part twice a week. Would something like this be okay? Could you give me an example of what you would do?

Shoulder Day 1 (“strength” day?)
DB Overhead Press 5x6 (work up to 90% of 6rm-ish)
DB Lateral Raises 4x10
Cable Lateral Raises 4x10
Machine Rear Delt Flies: 4x20

Shoulder Day 2 (rep day?)
DB Overhead Press 4x10 (work up to 80% 10RM-ish?)
DB Lateral Raises 4x12
Machine Rear Delt Flies: 4x20
2 JM Destroyer Sets: 50/35

Does that seem logical or just stupid?[/quote]

I think you are doing too much random shit. I think you are spreading yourself over too many different movements and tracking progress may be difficult. try scaling that back a little and focus more on the movement and the weight used than how many movements you are doing.

I normally start with an overhead press movement no matter what. I sue this as a general warm up and also do some biceps or triceps in between sets.

I then have at least a good side lateral movement and shrugs. I don’t always do rear delts here as I sometimes add them n on back day in between sets.

In general, my shoulder day is about 4 exercises; the overhead press, the side lateral raise, shrugs and a high incline press for front delts.

[/quote]

That makes sense. You do this twice a week, yes?[/quote]

Usually. I just really like training shoulders. Shoulders and chest are like vacations to me.

My time in the gym often isn’t more than an hour unless I am doing two a days.[/quote]

Always appreciate the info, PX. Many thanks.

40

[quote]Zooguido wrote:

Always appreciate the info, PX. Many thanks.[/quote]

No problem. I could talk all day about shoulders.