Lumpy, It amazes me that someone who assumingly was alive for 9-11 could have such a distorted view of reality. Its people like you that try mold history to their own personal politics. Dont ever ever ever write a history book.
Clark is also a straightup liar.
WhatEVER! Sorry, but what do you call that excuse for a president right now? I swear, it truly amazes me how people who appear to be intelligent in all other walks of life can not see right through this administration and their not-so-hidden agenda. The man cannot open his mouth without lying. The only thing he doesn’t have to lie about is sex (as far as I know). He flat out lied to congress to get us in a war with Iraq, and completely dropped the ball on the pursuit of Osama bin [who?]. Who has he caught? No one. Were the WMDs there? NO. Did you happen to know that the Bin Ladens are long time friends of the Bush family? They sorta leave that little factoid out of the “liberal-biased” media.
Clark is still an unknown quantity to me, but based on his honorable service in the military, and the fact that he has won medals for valor and a purple heart he has some credibility. I’m not saying he the best option out there yet either… I just don’t know. Bush, however, is deserting COWARD! If you can still convince yourself that Bush is your man with all the KNOWN and indisputable facts about him then frankly you deserve him.
Goldberg, care to explain?
I think Lumpy may have just set a record for most usage of “pussy” & “fucking” in one post.
deposing Diesel & US=GG’s jointly held claim to fame.
Oh the good ol days when those guys were running round calling everyone Nazis… 
Right on JP.
I know military guys who despise Bush because they do see through the facade. These are the intelligent Special Forces types.
as Molly Ivins wrote, hes just another white boy acting tough.
An ex-drunk born-again silver-spooner (one up his nose as well) sorta white boy.
Hey Lumpy,
Clinton had many chances to take out Osama way before Bush but instead decided to waste million dollar cruises missiles blowing up rocks, you brain dead left wing yahoo.
Clark is a tool with no platform other than I’m not Bush, all the dem pres candidates are pretty vague on what they will do to solve any of the problems if they get elected.
Get your head out of your left wing crazy partisan ass and look at things neutrally and logically.
Clark is a big fat liar.
Swett: Clark Knew Facts of Iraq Resolution (Clark – a liar, and not a very good one.)
Associated Press | Saturday, October 25, 2003 | By NEDRA PICKLER
Posted on 10/25/2003 5:17 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
Swett: Clark Knew Facts of Iraq Resolution
By NEDRA PICKLER .c The Associated Press
WASHINGTON (AP) - One-time House candidate Katrina Swett said Friday that Democratic presidential hopeful Wesley Clark appeared completely familiar with the Iraq resolution when he advised her to support it.
Swett, national co-chair for Clark rival Joe Lieberman, disputed Clark’s claim that he didn’t know what was in the measure when counseling her last year.
Clark, a retired Army general, now says he would not have voted for the resolution that authorized President Bush to launch military strikes against Iraq. But that’s not what he said a year ago as Congress was debating the issue.
On Oct. 9, 2002, Clark was campaigning with Swett, a Democrat who was running for Congress in New Hampshire. He told an Associated Press reporter that day that although he was concerned about the country’s move to war, he supported the resolution and would advise Swett to vote for it if she were in Congress.
Clark has based much of his candidacy on his opposition to the war. He says that in contrast to Bush, he is an experienced military leader who would not rush to fight.
On Wednesday, Clark pleaded ignorance when the Boston Globe asked why he said a year ago that he would have voted for the resolution and advised Swett to do the same.
``I wasn’t following the resolution and I didn’t even know what was in the resolution,‘’ he told the Globe, according to a report in Friday editions.
Swett said Friday that Clark was ``extremely intelligent and well-spoken’’ on the resolution when discussing it with her.
At that time, frankly, he spoke with great knowledge about Iraq and the upcoming vote,'' she said. My impression is that he knew more about it than most of us.‘’
The Clark campaign dismissed Swett’s account.
``We’re not going to sweat what an avowed Lieberman supporter says about our candidate,‘’ said Clark spokesman Matt Bennett.
Swett lost the congressional race last year.
On the Net:
10/24/03 23:23 EDT
With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
For the story behind the story…
Click Here
Click Here
Click Here
Friday, Nov. 21, 2003 9:27 a.m. EST
Clark Lashes Out as Character Questions Mount
Democratic presidential candidate Gen. Wesley Clark lashed out on Thursday against military colleagues who have attacked his character in an attempt to warn the public that he should not serve as president of the United States.
Addressing the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, Gen. Clark responded to charges from former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Henry Shelton, who revealed in September that the presidential candidate had to be relieved as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO during the Kosovo War over what Shelton described as questions of “character and integrity.”
But in quotes picked up by the New York Sun, Gen. Clark angrily told the audience that his departure “had nothing to do about my character or integrity.” He then added that Gen. Shelton’s remark “constitutes a smear.”
Clark’s smearmonger charge against Shelton represents a considerable escalation of the rhetoric in the controversy, and comes as new allegations from several additional military men threaten to further tarnish his image.
Weeks after Shelton offered his assessment, William Cohen, who wasD defense secretary at the time Clark was ousted, told CNN: “There was friction between General Clark and myself. … I felt that the ax, as such, when it fell, spoke for itself.”
Retired Army Lt. Gen. Marc Cisneros went so far as to brand Clark a liar, citing a 1996 episode in which he and Clark were competing for the same job, a four-star position heading the U.S. Southern Command.
Cisneros, who had the Army’s backing, told the Associated Press that when he confronted Clark about the matter, he “just outright lied” and denied he was seeking the job, which eventually did go to Clark.
“I worry about his ethical standards regarding honesty and forthrightness,” Cisneros told the AP.
Former Army chief of staff, retired Gen. Dennis Reimer, has told reporters that Clark is intelligent and hardworking, but says the Democratic candidate "focused too much upward and not down on the soldiers.
“I’ve always believed you ought to be looking down toward your soldiers and not up at how to please your boss. … I just didn’t see enough of that in Wes.”
Retired Army Brig. Gen. David Grange says that Clark would be so focused on success that he would not be aware of the feelings and concerns of the people around him. Says Gen. Grange, “There’s no question that General Clark is for General Clark.”
In October, Clark released his military records in an attempt to rebut the mounting criticism - and many of these documents do indeed praise his character.
As noted by USA Today, however, the records made public by Clark end when he became a three-star general - precisely the period when the controversy about his character arose.
Kristin Billera contributed to this report.
kuri, lumpy, jpfitness:
I’ve returned to point out your shortcomings. Actually, kuri, it was cupcake who called me a “nazi.” I have never used that word to describe anyone. I hate that word with a righteous passion.
I know how critical my opinion of clark will be to you. Wait no longer!!! I don’t think anyone buys this guy as a “modern democrat.” His whole candidacy reeks of opportunism. If George W. Bush wasn’t as powerful a candidate, do you honestly think clark would be on the democratic ticket?
I wanted to tell you three how much fun I am having watching your ideas and candidates repudiated at every turn. Your party offers no real solutions. It is all about factionalism and pitting groups against each other. I loved watching your representatives fight amongst each other regarding the Iraq resolutions and the new Medicare bill. Your party is as divided as your message. Who is your standard bearer? dean?!? billary?!? I LOVE IT!!! Ever hear of the Whigs? That is where you are heading. I say, “GOOD RIDDANCE!!!”
Your friend in the Right,
United States=Good Guys
US=GG the return!
mmm… I do seem to remember the word “nazi” being bandied about some time back though… anyway
Whoever said the Democrats were “my party”? Not I.
But I agree they should pursue the issues and stop bashing each other like they were having it out in the schoolyard.
Doogie
I see you read NewsMax. The folks who love “El Rushbo”, Ann Coulter, and other wackos.
That explains a lot.
Mega-dittos!
Hugz,
Lumpy
No-one makes it to flag rank without being political. To get your 4th star, you HAVE to be a political animal.
US=GG,
Honestly dude… You can keep him! He’s not MY president! He is an embarrassment to the country. He lies worse than any politician (which sounds like an oxymoron), and more than that, he is a gutless coward. No, wait… He is brave at sending brave soldiers to their deaths. Amazing coming from a DESERTER! He can raise 200 million, as they say he will, and he still won’t win this presidency! No one who has ever deserted his service during a time of war should be allowed to be president. That throws out Cheney too… He was deferred something like 4 times! If you like these cowards then I am truly embarrassed for you. Somehow this whole deserting issue keeps getting avoided in replies from the “Good Guys”… Come on guys! Lets hash this out. Why do you support a yellow-belly deserter? Is it because you would have done the same thing if you were up for the draft for Vietnam? Please tell me that you guys of all people - T-MEN For God’s sake! - would ever support such a loser. And a “recovered” drunk to boot. No respect or admiration from me… Character DOES actually mean something.
I’m sure if Clark was a republican all the Bush nut-huggers would love him
jpfitness,
Question: Why did you vote for billclinton? Hypocrite.
The armed forces love George W. Bush? Reason: Courage. He flew fighter jets. He FLIES fighter jets. He is target number one on the bad guys’ list. Where was he on Thanksgiving? He was serving food to our men and women in the military in downtown Baghdad.
The armed forces can tell the difference between a billclinton and a George W. Bush. This is evidenced by his reception at each military event. Contrast this with the unprecedented commercials that the Armed Forces paid for in 1993 opposing billclinton’s policies.
By the way, why don’t you and I make the national election of 2004 more personal? It will be my philosophy versus yours. One on one. Me versus you, jpfitness. I’ll be smiling and you will be making excuses. I can’t wait!!!
Again… I ask you. Will one of you not stand up and address this Bush deserting for 17 months during Vietnam? I say this, yet no one wants to address this issue.
And, BTW, I am not yet throwing my support at Clark either. I just have real issues with people taking the highest office who couldn’t serve honorably in the military… People like BUSH.
And US=GG… what would a “philosophical” debate between you and me solve? We simply disagree. Its pretty simple. I think Deisel’s earlier post (was it in this thread) was actually a moment of brilliance… He hit the nail on the proverbial head! Why don’t you just address my questions and quit being a blowhard?
COntinuing from the “Hell yeah War” thread, again… I ask you. Will one of you not stand up and address this Bush deserting for 17 months during Vietnam? I say this, yet no one wants to address this issue.
And, BTW, I am not yet throwing my support at Clark either. I just have real issues with people taking the highest office who couldn’t serve honorably in the military… People like BUSH.
Roy Batty: Luckily due to a respect for two-way politics I would have to say that anyone that has had anything to do with the Clinton regime cannot say anything about Deserting.
Recovered Alcoholism: Not a bad thing. Is it a preferred character trait? Certainly not. I do have the openness of mind to accept that some people change… not only a little but dramatically as a result of self reflection. How many T-men here have reformed their High-E ways? How many have striven to drive back their tendencies toward sloth and obesity? (I also like Bush a little bit more when I think of how Clinton ran like a puss and Bush at least gets into the gym and throws some iron around.) BTW I never faulted Clinton for trying MJ. I just thought his excuse was poorly contrived and indicative of a person trying to suavely placate. It turns out that much of his presidency was motivated similarly.
Clark: His military history displays his lack of character. He has been reprimanded multiple times for his hubris and conniving two-facedness. Besides, he lobbied for a R position not more than 18mos ago. When he failed to get a hand-out from Bush he suddenly “found God” and went Dem. Not good on his consistency.
Dean: At least you know where the guy is coming from. I think he’s a nut, but he is a predictable and somewhat forthright nut. However his latest dealings to surreptitiously placate to Washingtonians whilst deriding them publicly does make him seem a bit false.
So Roy… Did I answer your question? Probably not. The best answer that I can give you (sadly) is that apparently the American people (not I) feel that desertion during the Viet Nam conflict was not only understandable but desirable.
Sorry, but it seems that our predilection towards honorable military service is not shared by the common man. That is yet another reason why our military (although stout, strong, and formidable) is in for trouble in the next few decades. The same story for our international intelligence assets.
guan2m: regarding Roy Batty’s ?s regarding Bush’s chickenhawkedness
fact: he did go AWOL. He did purposefuly avoid duty in Vietnam, and used his father’s influence to make that happen.
Was it a conscientious objection? Seeing as how Bush is as far right as the meter goes - then probably not.
The more likely scenario is that he was afraid and simply did not want to die.
Is this much different than most everyone? No, but that he now is touting himself as a pilot and some sort of military hero is incredibly offensive, and morally bankrupt.
Bush is not only a weak coward
but also one who hides behind pseudo-religious ideology.