T Nation

General Pace on Gays

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
…You probably don’t understand that, HH, because you did not serve your country (just like the guy you voted for president).

HH voted for Clinton?

Don’t be daft.
You know what I’m talking about.
Clinton, while not having served, did know the implications of the american war machine unleashed and it’s fury.
The other guy didn’t do both.
You don’t have to serve to recognize this. But some guys learn from that experience.

Headhunter then wrote:
Homosexuality is immoral because it is a choice made against either God or nature, depending on if you accept religion or science.

Yeah, right, because some guy who “accepts religion” and actually believes that stuff (Jesus, Allah, whatever) will then in turn start screwing his own gender?

(on a sidenote, HH, did you know that Mohamed Atta was a closet gay of the highest calibre. Had no girlfriend his whole life, never greeted them with a handshake -similar to Borat- and stressed in his last will that no women should be present at his funeral. Kind of frustrates a guy, doesn’t it?
Now that happens if you are gay and simultaneously truly believe in (a old mesopotamian) god. )

And why on earth would that be “scientifically” against nature? Please , no bullshit links to right nut christian fanatic sites. Honest explanations, please. [/quote]

You’re asking for serious explination of the “against nature” argument?

Its always the same:

Boys fuck girls and make babies. Duh! Anything else is against nature!

Of course, this is the same way black men fuck black women and make black babies… so for a black man to fuck an asian woman is against nature. Same with any other interracial relationship.

Keep in mind ALL the arguments against homosexuality were used against interracial relationships. All.

Nevermind that homosexuality has been shown to occur in plenty of species… to narrowminded bigots, its “against nature”.

The biological purpose of sex is for creating more humans. Pleasure is the reward built into us as a stimulus to continue procreation. It therefore follows that perversion of this natural setup is not in the interest of life (or God, for the religious folks).

To be anti-life is to be immoral. General Pace understands this. I’m shocked that most of you libs don’t know any of this.

Monogamy is further in the interests of life. Men tended to care more for his biological offspring. Therefore, adultery is not in the best interests of the child, and hence in the interests of life. (And I have never cheated on my wife of 19 years and would not do so. We are humans, not animals.)

To engage in homosexuality or adultery is anti-life. It is the perversion of pleasure and is, in fact, a longing for death. So those who do these things, while they think they’re having a grand old time, simply wish to die.

While I feel I am a pretty conservative guy at heart, I totally am not getting that above explanation…

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The biological purpose of sex is for creating more humans. Pleasure is the reward built into us as a stimulus to continue procreation. It therefore follows that perversion of this natural setup is not in the interest of life (or God, for the religious folks).

To be anti-life is to be immoral. General Pace understands this. I’m shocked that most of you libs don’t know any of this.

Monogamy is further in the interests of life. Men tended to care more for his biological offspring. Therefore, adultery is not in the best interests of the child, and hence in the interests of life. (And I have never cheated on my wife of 19 years and would not do so. We are humans, not animals.)

To engage in homosexuality or adultery is anti-life. It is the perversion of pleasure and is, in fact, a longing for death. So those who do these things, while they think they’re having a grand old time, simply wish to die. [/quote]

You get nuttier by the post. Like I said, I wasn’t proud to be nailing someone’s wife, but I sure as hell didn’t have a death wish while doing it. What depths of your anus did you pull that from?

And while we’re at it, I guess we should weed out all the GAY police, fireman, emts, teachers, and every other public servant. I sure as hell don’t want some gay fireman saving my mother or sister from a burning building. And I’m sure you would rather let someone who raped a member of your family get away than be arrested by a “homo” cop.

In your mind, where does it end? What the fuck does the military have to do with it?

I’m sure it was a political staement from Pace. And if it wasn’t, fuck him. He should know better. Anybody who is willing to die while I’m sitting home watching TV isn’t going to get any questions from me about his/her sexuality.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
olderguy wrote:

You’re a bigot and not having served, who the fuck are you to be knocking anyone who is putting their life on the line for YOU? Shut up, relax, and enjoy your freedom at the expense of the hetro and homosexual servers.

You have some set of balls.

Do you love the irony as much as I do?

Thank you. This needed to be said.[/quote]

I don’t know about you, but I would pay a big premium to have this guy teach my kids. (I have none). Could you imagine? The kids must leave his class feeling like they just dropped acid. Or they do after they leave. Wow. [/quote]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
We are humans, not animals.

[/quote]
hmmmm…I humbly disagree.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The biological purpose of sex is for creating more humans. Pleasure is the reward built into us as a stimulus to continue procreation. It therefore follows that perversion of this natural setup is not in the interest of life (or God, for the religious folks).

To be anti-life is to be immoral. General Pace understands this. I’m shocked that most of you libs don’t know any of this.

Monogamy is further in the interests of life. Men tended to care more for his biological offspring. Therefore, adultery is not in the best interests of the child, and hence in the interests of life. (And I have never cheated on my wife of 19 years and would not do so. We are humans, not animals.)

To engage in homosexuality or adultery is anti-life. It is the perversion of pleasure and is, in fact, a longing for death. So those who do these things, while they think they’re having a grand old time, simply wish to die. [/quote]

Does anyone else notice how in the beginning of this post, he accuses homosexuals of being “anti-life” because they dont reproduce… then later says they are “anti-life” because they want themselves to die?

The problem with arguing with bigots is that if they were smart enough to actually listen, they wouldn’t be bigots in the first place.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Honor, duty, country…where do we find these values?

Homosexuality is immoral because it is a choice made against either God or nature, depending on if you accept religion or science.[/quote]

And if homosexuality is a part of nature? Variation is a part of natural, according to evolution. Therefore, homos are perfectly natural. They just don’t reproduce, and there fore don’t spread into the gene pool. They still raise kids though… so… hmmm…

I hope your son or daughter turns out gay, just so someone could see you squirm and try and wiggle your way out of it (like we get to see Cheney do all the time).

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
We are humans, not animals.

hmmmm…I humbly disagree.
[/quote]

Ummm… I’m pretty darn sure Homo Sapiens belong under the Animalia kingdom…

HH, do you think we’re plants?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
That would of course imply that homosexality IS immoral in any way.

He compared it to adultery, not quite an accurate comparison. It is more like premarital sex.

[/quote]

I guess many would be quite happy to marry…

Let`s make honest people out of all these sailors…

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The biological purpose of sex is for creating more humans. Pleasure is the reward built into us as a stimulus to continue procreation. It therefore follows that perversion of this natural setup is not in the interest of life (or God, for the religious folks).

To be anti-life is to be immoral. General Pace understands this. I’m shocked that most of you libs don’t know any of this.

Monogamy is further in the interests of life. Men tended to care more for his biological offspring. Therefore, adultery is not in the best interests of the child, and hence in the interests of life. (And I have never cheated on my wife of 19 years and would not do so. We are humans, not animals.)

To engage in homosexuality or adultery is anti-life. It is the perversion of pleasure and is, in fact, a longing for death. So those who do these things, while they think they’re having a grand old time, simply wish to die. [/quote]

Just because the original biological purpose was one thing that does not mean that evolution cannot start to use it for another.

Our 3D vision is certainly a plus for small primates hanging around in trees but it also made us excellent hunters.

Our brain might only be a sexual ornament and yet we use it to solve equations.

So, who are you to know what the exclusive purpose of human sexuality is?

Furthermore humans, like most species are not monogamous. The different sizes of the two sexes and the size of our testicles practically prove that polygamy is the norm.

Even if a homosexual was not following natures laws (why does nature make so many of them then?), he is probably following his true nature and according to Rand that is what it`s all about.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The biological purpose of sex is for creating more humans. Pleasure is the reward built into us as a stimulus to continue procreation. It therefore follows that perversion of this natural setup is not in the interest of life (or God, for the religious folks).

To be anti-life is to be immoral. General Pace understands this. I’m shocked that most of you libs don’t know any of this.

Monogamy is further in the interests of life. Men tended to care more for his biological offspring. Therefore, adultery is not in the best interests of the child, and hence in the interests of life. (And I have never cheated on my wife of 19 years and would not do so. We are humans, not animals.)

To engage in homosexuality or adultery is anti-life. It is the perversion of pleasure and is, in fact, a longing for death. So those who do these things, while they think they’re having a grand old time, simply wish to die. [/quote]

This really isn’t worth my time, BUT…

“Monogamy is further in the interest of life. Men tended to care for his biological offspring”

Don’t think you can say that. In terms of parental investment, males only need to copulate. Upon fertilization, they can go do it again somewhere else. Sure, they won’t be around to fend for their pregnant partners and nor will they be able to fend for their children. But, once baby is born, mommy will take care of it. And also, because they’re copulating so much, it doesn’t really matter if a few offspring die. We see this in a lot of other species than ourselves. (We also see a lot of homosexuality in other species than ourselves, but that’s a whole other ballgame).

I could father more kids with different women than I could with one. That’s preserving life. You can argue for quality of life w/o a father and all hoopla, but the bottom line is that adultery is not anti-life.

If I have a family and have a few kids on the side are you going to say I’m anti-life?

[quote]engerland66 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The biological purpose of sex is for creating more humans. Pleasure is the reward built into us as a stimulus to continue procreation. It therefore follows that perversion of this natural setup is not in the interest of life (or God, for the religious folks).

To be anti-life is to be immoral. General Pace understands this. I’m shocked that most of you libs don’t know any of this.

Monogamy is further in the interests of life. Men tended to care more for his biological offspring. Therefore, adultery is not in the best interests of the child, and hence in the interests of life. (And I have never cheated on my wife of 19 years and would not do so. We are humans, not animals.)

To engage in homosexuality or adultery is anti-life. It is the perversion of pleasure and is, in fact, a longing for death. So those who do these things, while they think they’re having a grand old time, simply wish to die.

This really isn’t worth my time, BUT…

“Monogamy is further in the interest of life. Men tended to care for his biological offspring”

Don’t think you can say that. In terms of parental investment, males only need to copulate. Upon fertilization, they can go do it again somewhere else. Sure, they won’t be around to fend for their pregnant partners and nor will they be able to fend for their children. But, once baby is born, mommy will take care of it. And also, because they’re copulating so much, it doesn’t really matter if a few offspring die. We see this in a lot of other species than ourselves. (We also see a lot of homosexuality in other species than ourselves, but that’s a whole other ballgame).

I could father more kids with different women than I could with one. That’s preserving life. You can argue for quality of life w/o a father and all hoopla, but the bottom line is that adultery is not anti-life.

If I have a family and have a few kids on the side are you going to say I’m anti-life?[/quote]

Trust me, he is going to find something to say about it.

[quote]lIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The good thing about Gen. Pace is that he is at the end of his career. I can’t beleive I served under this tool. He just discredited 60 thousand troops. That’s ok though, maybe some clear thinking homosexuals might rethink standing up to defend a country that won’t stand up for them.[/quote]

I can’t believe you did either.

JeffR

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The biological purpose of sex is for creating more humans. Pleasure is the reward built into us as a stimulus to continue procreation. It therefore follows that perversion of this natural setup is not in the interest of life (or God, for the religious folks).

To be anti-life is to be immoral. General Pace understands this. I’m shocked that most of you libs don’t know any of this.

Monogamy is further in the interests of life. Men tended to care more for his biological offspring. Therefore, adultery is not in the best interests of the child, and hence in the interests of life. (And I have never cheated on my wife of 19 years and would not do so. We are humans, not animals.)
[/quote]

This is nonsense.
Monogamy is just one model of raising children. Read your favorite book and look up your prophets. Monogamy? It seems Gawd did have some strange ideas BC ?

Sexuality is above else a part of our social culture. Lesser animals only cupulate to produce offspring. But we primates use it for a variety of reasons. Our next of kin, the Bonobos, practically fuck every day. And they don’t do it just for fun, it ultimately serves a higher purpose. Compared to them, the chimpanzees are unkempt brutes. The Bonobo’s fuck fests socialize the group tightly together. They do it in groups, girl girl, boy boy, missionary , french kissing, whatever.
So even apes don’t fuck only to reproduce.

If someone honestly thinks of sex as a sole means to populate the earth, he is either crazy or trying to be the next pope- so face it: Sex for higher animals like us is a lot more then just coupling. And that is the reason it comes in so many shapes.
Nature is full of it. Gay animal behavior (and I’m speaking of true GAY behavior) has been studied countless times, so why should homo sapiens be an exception?

Your naturalistic argumentation is just silly. (This is against nature = bad, and that is pro-life, therefore it’s good)
When you had your first date as a teenager and visited your sweetie’s home, did her Dad tell you: “I hope you two won’t go to the movies and make out. This is anti life because just sucking my daughters tits will not impregnate her. You should go to her room and start mating seriously.”
Pray tell it wasn’t so. In fact, the romantic part of our life is an essential part of our western civilization you hold so dear.
Mayhap you should consider becoming a muslim. For them, having sex just to make babies seems a smart idea.

PS: It’s nice you try not to cheat on your women, so we do have something in common, it seems. Still, sex and love are very different (albeit close) things.

Another incredibly intelligent statement from an obviously incredibly intelligent and open minded man.

It doesn’t paint the military in the best light, nor its leaders.

Last bastion of morality? Laughable.

What a fuckin waste.

General Pace was born in Brooklyn, NY and grew up in Teaneck, NJ. A 1967 graduate of the United States Naval Academy, he holds a Master’s Degree in Business Administration from George Washington University and attended Harvard University for the Senior Executives in National and International Security program. The General is also a graduate of the Infantry Officers’ Advanced Course at Fort Benning, Ga.; the Marine Corps Command and Staff College, in Quantico, VA; and the National War College, at Ft. McNair, Washington, DC.

In 1968, upon completion of The Basic School, Quantico, Va., General Pace was assigned to the 2d Battalion, 5th Marines, 1st Marine Division in the Republic of Vietnam, serving first as a Rifle Platoon Leader and subsequently as Assistant Operations Officer. He was later assigned to Marine Barracks, Washington, DC, where he served in a number of billets, to include Security Detachment Commander, Camp David; White House Social Aide; and Platoon Leader, Special Ceremonial Platoon.

General Pace has held command at virtually every level, and served in overseas billets in Nam Phong, Thailand; Seoul, Korea; and Yokota, Japan. While serving as President, Marine Corps University, then Brigadier General Pace also served as Deputy Commander, Marine Forces, Somalia, from December 1992 - February 1993, and as the Deputy Commander, Joint Task Force - Somalia from October 1993 - March 1994.

After an assignment as the Director for Operations (J-3), Joint Staff, Washington DC, then Lieutenant General Pace served as the Commander, U. S. Marine Corps Forces, Atlantic/Europe/South. He was promoted to General and assumed duties as the Commander in Chief, United States Southern Command in September 2000.

As the Vice Chairman from October 2001 to August 2005, General Pace served as the Chairman of the Joint Requirements Oversight Council, Vice Chairman of the Defense Acquisition Board, and as a member of the National Security Council Deputies Committee and the Nuclear Weapons Council.

General Pace’s personal decorations include:

Defense Distinguished Service Medal, with two oak leaf clusters; Defense Superior Service Medal; the Legion of Merit; Bronze Star Medal with Combat V; the Defense Meritorious Service Medal; Meritorious Service Medal with gold star; Navy Commendation Medal with Combat “V”; Navy Achievement Medal with gold star; and the Combat Action Ribbon.

For those critics calling for his head, or calling him a “tool” and an embarrassment…show me YOUR Bio and all that you’ve accomplished in your Life…

By all indications, General Pace has served and served well…

He is human, with human frailties…(…let he who is without sin…)

To me, he doesn’t owe me, or anyone else, a damn thing…

Semper Fi

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
General Pace was born in Brooklyn, NY and grew up in Teaneck, NJ. A 1967 graduate of the United States Naval Academy, he holds a Master’s Degree in Business Administration from George Washington University and attended Harvard University for the Senior Executives in National and International Security program. The General is also a graduate of the Infantry Officers’ Advanced Course at Fort Benning, Ga.; the Marine Corps Command and Staff College, in Quantico, VA; and the National War College, at Ft. McNair, Washington, DC.

In 1968, upon completion of The Basic School, Quantico, Va., General Pace was assigned to the 2d Battalion, 5th Marines, 1st Marine Division in the Republic of Vietnam, serving first as a Rifle Platoon Leader and subsequently as Assistant Operations Officer. He was later assigned to Marine Barracks, Washington, DC, where he served in a number of billets, to include Security Detachment Commander, Camp David; White House Social Aide; and Platoon Leader, Special Ceremonial Platoon.

General Pace has held command at virtually every level, and served in overseas billets in Nam Phong, Thailand; Seoul, Korea; and Yokota, Japan. While serving as President, Marine Corps University, then Brigadier General Pace also served as Deputy Commander, Marine Forces, Somalia, from December 1992 - February 1993, and as the Deputy Commander, Joint Task Force - Somalia from October 1993 - March 1994.

After an assignment as the Director for Operations (J-3), Joint Staff, Washington DC, then Lieutenant General Pace served as the Commander, U. S. Marine Corps Forces, Atlantic/Europe/South. He was promoted to General and assumed duties as the Commander in Chief, United States Southern Command in September 2000.

As the Vice Chairman from October 2001 to August 2005, General Pace served as the Chairman of the Joint Requirements Oversight Council, Vice Chairman of the Defense Acquisition Board, and as a member of the National Security Council Deputies Committee and the Nuclear Weapons Council.

General Pace’s personal decorations include:

Defense Distinguished Service Medal, with two oak leaf clusters; Defense Superior Service Medal; the Legion of Merit; Bronze Star Medal with Combat V; the Defense Meritorious Service Medal; Meritorious Service Medal with gold star; Navy Commendation Medal with Combat “V”; Navy Achievement Medal with gold star; and the Combat Action Ribbon.

For those critics calling for his head, or calling him a “tool” and an embarrassment…show me YOUR Bio and all that you’ve accomplished in your Life…

By all indications, General Pace has served and served well…

He is human, with human frailties…(…let he who is without sin…)

To me, he doesn’t owe me, or anyone else, a damn thing…

Semper Fi[/quote]

Ones merits mean nothing when one had said something stupid.

Please tell me you didn’t mean that…

Are you telling me that the sum total of all of our accomplishments are canceled when we say something stupid?

With that reasoning, then none of us have accomplished anything…

Mufasa

[quote]JeffR wrote:
lIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The good thing about Gen. Pace is that he is at the end of his career. I can’t beleive I served under this tool. He just discredited 60 thousand troops. That’s ok though, maybe some clear thinking homosexuals might rethink standing up to defend a country that won’t stand up for them.

I can’t believe you did either.

JeffR

[/quote]

You don’t believe I served under that tool?