Anyone know what’s REALLY going on here?
Yeah, not even the unions can force obama’s hand here. The problem is obvious. It is very poorly run and union contracts are killing them. They should have already filed for bankruptcy. I will take later than sooner. Even obama is seeing the light on this situation. Most people don’t want hybrids and electric cars. You put to much government in it that’s all they;ll build, and the damn things will just corrode on the lots while we go buy Honda’s, Bimmers’, and Mecedes Benz’s.
Makes me laugh when the talk about $5,000 tax rebate for buying a newer greener car with no mention of the energy that goes into producing that car.
Why do they have to try and link everything to the environment when it is clear they are just trying to stimulate people to buy things.
[quote]pat wrote:
Yeah, not even the unions can force obama’s hand here. The problem is obvious. It is very poorly run and union contracts are killing them. They should have already filed for bankruptcy. I will take later than sooner. Even obama is seeing the light on this situation. Most people don’t want hybrids and electric cars. You put to much government in it that’s all they;ll build, and the damn things will just corrode on the lots while we go buy Honda’s, Bimmers’, and Mecedes Benz’s.[/quote]
It’s not as simple as just the “unions are killing them”.
It was a long path for GM to the present, but the perfect storm recently have kinda finished it off with drama.
High Wages, High Gas Prices in the Summer, Economic Downturn, Historically Low Rates of New Car Purchases, and slowly declining quality of vehicle decline have all come together and killed the company at once.
Keep in mind that all car companies are ailing - just not as badly as the big three. Honda and Toyota have announced layoffs recently as well.
[quote]shookers wrote:
pat wrote:
Yeah, not even the unions can force obama’s hand here. The problem is obvious. It is very poorly run and union contracts are killing them. They should have already filed for bankruptcy. I will take later than sooner. Even obama is seeing the light on this situation. Most people don’t want hybrids and electric cars. You put to much government in it that’s all they;ll build, and the damn things will just corrode on the lots while we go buy Honda’s, Bimmers’, and Mecedes Benz’s.
It’s not as simple as just the “unions are killing them”.
It was a long path for GM to the present, but the perfect storm recently have kinda finished it off with drama.
High Wages, High Gas Prices in the Summer, Economic Downturn, Historically Low Rates of New Car Purchases, and slowly declining quality of vehicle decline have all come together and killed the company at once.
Keep in mind that all car companies are ailing - just not as badly as the big three. Honda and Toyota have announced layoffs recently as well.[/quote]
Yup, you are correct. They did not fuck up over night and everyone is hurting. But the unions are killing them.
GM quit being an auto manufacturer a long time ago when they tried to get in on the sub-prime lending action with their finance company GMAC.
The government provided them an opportunity that didn’t seem to be the best investment choice and now they are going to be run by the same organization that caused the problem to begin with?
Perfect.
[quote]shookers wrote:
pat wrote:
Yeah, not even the unions can force obama’s hand here. The problem is obvious. It is very poorly run and union contracts are killing them. They should have already filed for bankruptcy. I will take later than sooner. Even obama is seeing the light on this situation. Most people don’t want hybrids and electric cars. You put to much government in it that’s all they;ll build, and the damn things will just corrode on the lots while we go buy Honda’s, Bimmers’, and Mecedes Benz’s.
It’s not as simple as just the “unions are killing them”.
It was a long path for GM to the present, but the perfect storm recently have kinda finished it off with drama.
High Wages, High Gas Prices in the Summer, Economic Downturn, Historically Low Rates of New Car Purchases, and slowly declining quality of vehicle decline have all come together and killed the company at once.
Keep in mind that all car companies are ailing - just not as badly as the big three. Honda and Toyota have announced layoffs recently as well.[/quote]
Don’t forget that they are also drowning under a sea of benefits (mostly health care and pensions) to retirees.
(Wasn’t the last estimate about $2000.00 PER car just for retiree benefits?)
Mufasa
[quote]shookers wrote:
pat wrote:
Yeah, not even the unions can force obama’s hand here. The problem is obvious. It is very poorly run and union contracts are killing them. They should have already filed for bankruptcy. I will take later than sooner. Even obama is seeing the light on this situation. Most people don’t want hybrids and electric cars. You put to much government in it that’s all they;ll build, and the damn things will just corrode on the lots while we go buy Honda’s, Bimmers’, and Mecedes Benz’s.
It’s not as simple as just the “unions are killing them”.
It was a long path for GM to the present, but the perfect storm recently have kinda finished it off with drama.
High Wages, High Gas Prices in the Summer, Economic Downturn, Historically Low Rates of New Car Purchases, and slowly declining quality of vehicle decline have all come together and killed the company at once.
Keep in mind that all car companies are ailing - just not as badly as the big three. Honda and Toyota have announced layoffs recently as well.[/quote]
I’ve got nothing good to say about the unions. Of course, this all can’t be laid at their feet, but at some point the workers on the line made the decision to slow production in order to require overtime to meet goals. At some point the workers looked past ill fitting parts just to get units shipped. There is a definite “us versus them” attitude inside the factories.
I was working in the Mack Avenue Chrysler engine plant about a year ago, and I finished up 5 minutes into their hour long union break. These are guys I get along great with, but they wouldn’t escort me offsite because they couldn’t get caught “working” I sat there watching the clock tick, charging them $275 an hour.
Management isn’t any better either though. Their managers won’t shell out for a $8,000 yearly warranty on my tool to save money, but when my tool went down (because a worker spilled a coke in a high voltage supply), they lost millions of dollars a day because 4 engine plants had to be halted for failure analysis until I could get back onsite. With a little foresight, they could have spent $8,000 to save millions.
[quote]borrek wrote:
I was working in the Mack Avenue Chrysler engine plant about a year ago, and I finished up 5 minutes into their hour long union break. These are guys I get along great with, but they wouldn’t escort me offsite because they couldn’t get caught “working” I sat there watching the clock tick, charging them $275 an hour.
Management isn’t any better either though. Their managers won’t shell out for a $8,000 yearly warranty on my tool to save money, but when my tool went down (because a worker spilled a coke in a high voltage supply), they lost millions of dollars a day because 4 engine plants had to be halted for failure analysis until I could get back onsite. With a little foresight, they could have spent $8,000 to save millions.
[/quote]
Sounds like a great investment for the american tax payer. It really doesn’t matter why they are a failure. Failures should be allowed to fail.
What I love is the fear that they will vanish if they fail. That’s simply not the case. Assets and product lines with be bought by more efficient producers, where they can better be used.
Fuck 'em buy a Ford.
I’m happy with my Mitsubishi
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
Fuck 'em buy a Ford. [/quote]
But Ford doesn’t really make anything I like. The Mustang’s OK, but it handles like a pig…I’d much rather have a Vette, especially the ZR1…Ford quit making the GT. I guess they have nice trucks. But I like I trucks to be pieces of shit I can abuse and not care.
[quote]pat wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
Fuck 'em buy a Ford.
But Ford doesn’t really make anything I like. The Mustang’s OK, but it handles like a pig…I’d much rather have a Vette, especially the ZR1…Ford quit making the GT. I guess they have nice trucks. But I like I trucks to be pieces of shit I can abuse and not care.[/quote]
It ain’t a truck unless its a Super Duty. I love my SD known as the Beast or Tiny by my clubs standards. Its been with me through thick and thin. More so than the women that I’ve been intimate with. My 7.3 was my favorite though. That thing was a monster. It would pimp slap any Cummins on the road. Rolling coal through 1st and 2nd gears. I would love to pass by a Prius or a hippy driven bar and just whoomp it to let out a gigantic cloud of smog come out of the big ass RBP black tip right on there asses. It would still break the 38s loose at highway speeds when I did that. sniff I love you Panda Bear wherever you are!!! It was a 02, white and black two tone, club cab, short bed. When I saw him on the lot, that what immediately came to mind.
I agree the new Mustang stock is as quick as a fat man on a buffet line but throw some aftermarket goodies on there and the bastard is one snappy mother…Whatcho mouth! What I’m only talking about a properly modified new gen Mustang using Roush components. Back to the subject: A noteworthy tid-bit, Ford hasn’t been back to the government trough unlike those lesser companies that need the Obama admin. tit to live.
[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
pat wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
Fuck 'em buy a Ford.
But Ford doesn’t really make anything I like. The Mustang’s OK, but it handles like a pig…I’d much rather have a Vette, especially the ZR1…Ford quit making the GT. I guess they have nice trucks. But I like I trucks to be pieces of shit I can abuse and not care.
It ain’t a truck unless its a Super Duty. I love my SD known as the Beast or Tiny by my clubs standards. Its been with me through thick and thin. More so than the women I’ve had I’ve been intimate with. My 7.3 was my favorite though. That thing was a monster. It would pimp slap any Cummins on the road. Rolling coal through 1st and 2nd gears. I would love to pass by a Prius or a hippy driven bar and just whoomp it to let out a gigantic cloud of smog come out of the big ass RBP black tip right on there asses. It would still break the 38s loose at highway speeds when I did that. sniff I love you Panda Bear wherever you are!!! It was a 02, white and black two tone, club cab, short bed. When I saw him on the lot, that what immediately came to mind.
I agree the new Mustang stock is as quick as a fat man on a buffet line but throw some aftermarket goodies on there and the bastard is one snappy mother…Whatcho mouth! What I’m only talking about a properly modified new gen Mustang using Roush components. Back to the subject: A noteworthy tid-bit, Ford hasn’t been back to the government trough unlike those lesser companies that need the Obama admin. tit to live. [/quote]
Although I have nothing against Ford, its important to note that Ford has not suckled at the government tit because they were beginning to have issues before the recession hit.
Ford liquidated a shit load of factories, personal, etc for cash a while back.
So when the recession hit they were actually “prepared”, albeit unintentionally, with a large safety fund of cash to tide them over.
I do believe that Chevy has a better product line and better R&D.
Chevy can compete with current market giants, mostly Toyota and Honda.
Ford’s cars can not, they intended to fall back on trucks and other such vehicles. Which has served them well for the most part.
Ford isnt in need because they were kinda sucking it up before anything went REALLY wrong with the markets.
Ironic isnt it ?