T Nation

Gender Norms, Postmodernism and How We Identify and MeToo


Lol, I took like 7 gym classes in HS. I even convinced our principle to let me drop AP US history for another gym class…


I’m trying to not be graphic or personal.

Most parents want the schools to teach kids to resist peer pressure, what to do if they aren’t ready and are getting pressure. Erg… Yeah, I don’t think most of us would have any problem talking about what you tell your daughter to say to her BF. She wants to say no, but doesn’t want to hurt his feelings, etc… A very common thing.

This is including the gay and lesbian kids in these scenarios. I’m not sure how graphic our schools are going to get, but I’m concerned.


It sounds like they want kids to resist one kind of peer pressure and accept another kind of pressure from the administration, that homo is the default and hetero is deviant.


My father was an immigrant and my mother died when I was 6, so I didn’t get a good dose of white privilege when it came to having guidance scholastically. I’m trying to make sure my daughter gets all that white privilege has to offer in that regard. AP classes, SAT tutor, etc. I can live with being the “problem” if it helps her.


More that nothing is deviant. All the things are normalized.

I guess I’m concerned about innocent kids who are being taught to stay chaste until marriage. I know that sounds very, very outdated but that’s the faith tradition of a lot of people. You, me, Jewbacca, Muslims… I’m not putting my head in the sand, but I also don’t want information to break down their natural modesty, values they’ve been taught at home and church.


Except that is incorrect. Normal is what the majority does, deviant skews from minority behavior to flat bizarre and there is a fuzzy line between acceptable deviance to dangerous and weird.
I hate places where ‘opposite day’ is everyday.
I don’t blame you for keeping kids out of that class.
We’re pretty open at home. I don’t want sex to be taboo at home and I want my kids to be responsible if the decide to do things I rather they don’t.


Getting religious here.

I think same sex attraction, or being attracted to both (bi) is part of the normal distribution, pat. If we look at the National Health Stats I put up, it says that 6% of men experience some level of same sex attraction, and 17% of women. Women are more flexible. I believe only something like 2% of men say they are bi.

I know we may disagree on this, but I see the incidence of same sex attraction as similar to me being green-eyed or a lefty. To clarify, my religion has stated that same sex attraction is not a sin.

My issue with most of this comes from the idea that in my theology, we’re expected to be chaste until marriage. For those individuals, they need our love and support because they may be expected to be chaste for life if they want to keep their covenants. We’re called to love people regardless. There’s nothing in my theology that justifies racism, sexism, or being unkind to people related to any difference. I think your theology is very similar? That some people may not be able to marry, may be called to be chaste?


Yeah, I never thought I’d be thinking of opting out of sex ed at school. I’m trying to not be reactive about things I’ve heard, and just go look over the all the materials specific to our school.

@ Home. Same. If you’re unable to discuss these things with your kids, you’re missing out on some of the important things, touchstones in their lives, opportunities to impart your values.


But normal does not equal right or just and what deviates from normal is not necessarily wrong or unjust. I think that is the point of this sort of education.


I don’t think that’s the point. It’s not about rights or justice, it’s just not what most people are.
It sounds like a misrepresentation of human sexuality. Anyway you slice it, most people are hetro. They are not equally homo as hetro. Most people are hetero, it’s just a fact and saying otherwise is not a fact.
It sounds like coercion and playing fast and loose with the facts. It’s not a value judement to say one thing is not like the other.
It’s not factual to say they are the same. They are not, and people pretending like they are is not going to do anybody any favors or make anybody feel better.


I think that this is where a lot of the friction occurs. Once emotions get involved and people (who probably feel judged all of the time anyways) get heated up and start griping or crybullying, it creates a problem where there previously wasn’t one.

I mean, seriously, we’re talking about a group that has actually managed to screw up some of the most simple and least confusing facts of life like “Girls have vaginas and boys have pee-pees.”.


I agree. Unfortunately, the English language does not give us different terminology for dry observation. Or people have preloaded these words with emotion.
In @anon71262119 's case. I can only imagine the only reason to consider not enrolling the kids in sex ed. Is the fear that they may not be telling them the full honest truth in the class. If everyone’s being honest, there should be nothing to be concerned about. I think her fears are warrented based on what I know.


Ok. I understand what you’re saying.

Certainly for someone with TG issues, the person feels they have a medical problem.

Yes. I have values centered on what I would call spiritual truths that do not always mesh with this message, or you could say that even if it’s the reality of our world, the" full honest truth" is not appropriate for my 15-year-old kid.

How much truth do kids need to know about anal sex, or about same sex relationships? Some of these materials talk about the safety of making a dildo from a banana as long as you use a condom on it. I am not joking. This is part of a sex ed course associated with UC San Francisco, and they have this information as part of a Toolkit for use with adolescents.

According to the National Health Stats I linked to, about 36% of all adult women, and something like 42% of adult men say they’ve had anal sex. Does that mean we need to get specific about it in high school sex ed class of 15-year-olds? Apparently we do if there are health risks, right? I think that’s the reasoning. And just because the cultural norms are shifting because people young people are watching a lot of porn, does that need to find it’s way into the “norm” for educational purposes? That’s how we define “normal” if it’s very common in the population?

To be clear, I could care less what consenting adults are doing in the privacy of their own homes. This isn’t personal. I’m talking about young adolescents here.


Specifically, your young adolescents.

You’ve got to be shitting me?!
Case in point, that’s not honest. Using foreign objects not designed for the intended purpose, has inherent risk you cannot get rid of. Specifically, tearing and infection.
Unless you use a carbon-fiber condom, it’s not safe and kids should not be instructed on how to mitigate something inherently dangerous.
Of course, the instructors are not the ones who have to sit in the ER for 12 hours with a scared and embarrassed teenager.


Technically, they do. Which can be on a spectrum from needing some counseling to surgery. There’s not a single answer for TG. It’s a spectrum depending on the person and permenant solutions need to be carefully considered.
That’s not sex ed. That’s a doctoral study of a very complex issue.


pat, the big organizations for Sex Ed are SIECUS (Sexuality and Information Council of the US), Planned Parenthood, and now LGBT advocacy groups like Advocates for Youth.

@ Making sex toys from vegetables, this is from Advocates fro Youth, and they are listed as a resource for kids. Notice this is printable handouts for lesson plans, from their Youth module. See PDF below. This content is on pages 50 and 51.



This is one of the online resources recommended for kids to go get their questions answered. It’s staffed by a lot of Trans, Queer, Gender fluid, you get the idea. These are the people who would be answering your kid’s questions. The message boards at this place are like the blind leading the blind. A bunch of TG and confused kids helping each other.

The woman who runs this site also has an adult porn site. She’s not a physician, or a psychologist, or even a credentialed teacher. She’s a self-appointed sex education expert.

"… is an author, activist, and Internet publisher with a focus on progressive, affirming sexuality. She is a self-described “queer, rabblerousing, polymath.” She was one of the pioneers of positive [human sexuality] on the internet. She has advocated for accepting the diverse forms of a sexual experience and avoiding “expertitis”.


Back in the 90’s me and my buddies managed to figure out how sex works the old-fashioned way. We pieced together the facts from the 30 min of sex ed we got at school, a March 1984 copy of Oui magazine, USA Up All Night and drinking in the wisdom of our older brothers.

By age 13 I think we had most of the key information down, but we were unfortunately completely unaware that there were gender-fluid non-binary paraphiliacs who got off on smelling their own farts and sitting on cakes.

It’s a good thing they’re covering all those bases now. I predict dramatically improved outcomes overall.


I think we have some weird obsession with sex in this country. The idea that who you have sex with, or how you have sex, is the most important part of your existence is bizarre. Is the most important thing we can teach teens, how to have better sex?


I’ll just leave this here. If you poke around the website for Advocates for Youth, there are lesson plans for all for all this. It’s all just straight up Intersectionality, oppressed groups, getting everyone to recognize their privilege and bias, identity politics language… far leftist politics.