T Nation

Gender Norms, Postmodernism and How We Identify and MeToo


#521

Oh, I just love it when LBGTQ+XYZ people compare their plight with that of Jim Crow\ slavery black people. Because, that’s remotely the same.


#522

If they were to mention homosexuals in general, as in the entire world, then they would have a case but that would mean admitting that a people they want to consider victims of straight, white, Christian (and Jewish) male oppression are the ones who are tossing them off buildings.


#523

I happened to come across this yesterday. Related to the thread.

I’m not sure what to think of this. My Master’s thesis involved value development and gender in adolescents. I was studying that under the umbrella of the Psychology department.

I was listening to NPR this week, with reports of research showing that families tend to give daughters more domestic chores, expect them to spend more time on domestic tasks than sons. I think that’s very interesting, and worth knowing. It made me think about my own parenting, but people in Psychology and fields like Behavioral Economics have long been studying such things, and continue to do so, and a lot of the most exciting work is happening in the Neurosciences, due to a rapid increase in technology for understanding the brain.

Again, I think there’s legitimate and meaningful research, but much of it is happening outside of Gender Studies departments. I’d be very happy to see some of the postmodernist philosophy and politics that calls itself “science” die.


#524

Yeah, are they differentiating between gender studies as a subject or as a discipline?


#525

Not in my house. I watched Davy Crocket (Disney) as a kid. In the movie he returns from hunting and says something like ‘Woman, make me supper’. Well, I came home from fishing one day (probably 6 at the time) and asked my mom and sister where my supper and cookies were. I spent every night from 6 to 17 (when I moved out) doing the dishes.


#526

I believe they want to eliminate a Gender Studies department, and the Hungarian president is using the reasoning that there are very few students, and no economic/ job market for graduates, and he’s calling it Marxist ideology. I’m not saying I want to see government make such an authoritarian move here, but many of these departments are relatively new.

I think there’s been a huge cultural shift over the last couple of generations. Both men and women need to know how to cook, do their own laundry, clean a toilet. I’d bet most of you are doing those things a lot more than maybe your dad or grandpa did. I know that’s the case in my family.

@ Farm and Ranch kids. My brothers were expected to get up in the middle of the night and go move irrigation pipe, which I wasn’t physically strong enough to handle, branding cattle, stacking hay bales, splitting wood, etc… Most of us are no longer raising families where we have any chores or work that require upper body strength.


#527

While I may not live on a farm/ranch, I will certainly make my boys (if I have kids) do physical labor early in the morning. My garage gym weights won’t put themselves away.

Possibly… I’ve actually found that most women my age cannot cook. My experience is that men can cook more (thanks to internet accessibility) and women are cooking less, relative to their respective gender, compared to previous generations.


#528

If they want to protest Iran or Syria or Hungary for treatment of homosexuals, they have my full support.
They never have suffered the full brunt of systemic discrimination that blacks did during Jim Crow and back. It’s not even close. I think it’s insulting to the black people who lived in those eras who suffered that systemic discrimination. Nobody knows you’re a homosexual unless you say it or demonstrate it. Blacks could never hide their blackness.
Anybody who makes that claim are auto blocked…
It represents a distinct lack of perspective and understanding. It’s just emotional vomit.


#529

@ finding physical work for kids.

Don’t pay someone to do your lawn and clean your house. We have a family friend who was an executive at one of the big financial companies. He had his teenage kids washing the cars, cleaning the house and taking care of the yard just to try to give them a work ethic. That was certainly the exception in their neighborhood where nearly everyone has a housekeeper, pool guy, and landscape service.

I think a lot of upper-middle and upper class people tell themselves that kid’s HW and school activities are their “work.” Fewer of these kids now have time for summer jobs because they’re busy with things like club sports or travel abroad. It’s probably not so great to have kids think they’re too good to clean the toilet, in the event that they actually need to start out with nothing, and know how to live with less as a young person starting out, or a poor young married couple who needs to at least temporarily live more frugally than their parents.

Also, I assume there are a lot of people who have no emergency savings but have other people doing these menial tasks.

/ rant.


#530

I do most of the cooking. Mainly because I am good cook…


#531

Your rant is reminding me of my childhood. Apparently I suppressed these memories. As a lower-middle class kid who wanted to play sports in HS, I had to demonstrate that I was responsible enough to play, by doing ‘Acts of Responsibility’. Aka - Every Saturday I washed both parents cars inside and out, mowed lawn, blew driveway. In the fall, I would blow leaves off the roof, then rake them and put them in the street. This was done weekly, in addition to ‘chores’.

Lemme tell yuh - as a kid growing up in PNW, we have more oak/maple trees on our street than all of Iowa.


#532

I think kids need more time to play, in an unstructured way. A lot of that is missing. We are so concerned with keeping kids safe that we tend to bubble them into a cocoon. It’s part of the reason I do not like home schooling. Kids, I have interacted with who are overly isolated seem to be a bit socially awkward. Organized sports don’t help because their attention is on the sport not each other.
Letting them interact and develop their own hierarchy and structures gives them a perspective they cannot get any other way.
I little Johnny has to go home to do his chores, it doesn’t seem so weird because it’s part of his social group.
When my kid gives me crap about cleaning their toilet, I offer them the alternative of licking it clean.


#533

Well here you go when the accuser gets accuser gets accused.

Not that I don’t believe her accusations against Harvey. However, she needs to take responsibility for her actions too. Now the kid probably enjoyed it but it doesn’t make what she did less wrong. She took advantage of a horny kid because he was horny and a kid. She’s old enough to be his mother and if the situation was flipped we’d be decrying the male was a complete pig, no matter how willing the girl was. She should get no free ride just because she is a woman and he was a boy.


#534

Had this happened in some other states it would have been completely legal.

And what she may have done is less wrong.


#535

That kid is a stud.

Tell me with a straight face you wouldn’t be high fiving the freaking sun and moon if you did the same thing at that age.

#thankgodfordoublestandards


#536

A stud wouldn’t be suing the woman. He would have taken his trophy and went home. He is the one complaining he was sexually harassed by her. That turns him from stud to whiny pussy and her a hypocrite. Or he’s “brave” for coming out and she’s a hypocrite.
Me? At 17? I wouldn’t have made it to the act. I’d be done before my shoes came off.


#537

Does it change if it was an older man seducing a young lady?

Or, an older man seducing ones 17 year old son?


#538

Duh, your life is over.


#539

Legally, no. Culturally, yes.


#540

Legit question for the “culturally” part: Do you think this is because humans know that the male has to have “blood pressure” to engage in intercourse with the older female? Thus it’s tough to argue he’s “unwilling” and thus “consenting”.

Does that all wrap up in “gender roles”?