T Nation

Geezer Runs His First Cycle

Hello. This is going to be the log where I maintain my progress (or lack thereof), daily swings, moods, etc. for my first steroid cycle. In order to not get flamed by hordes of bodybuilders and power-lifters, I am following the recommended cycle layout that was stickied on this forum. I’ve done a LOT (to me it’s a lot) of research over the past 9 months prior to starting this cycle, so I think I’m pretty well-informed…but I’m still a newbie.

And frankly, there’s a ton of conflicting information everywhere. So, while I feel I’m well informed, I also understand I’ve filled in a lot of gaps using common-sense, and sometimes chosen a side when conflicting information was provided, which will make my overall cycle seem…newbish and ridiculous? So, if you see that’s the case, I would appreciate input and correction.

Just understand, for newbies out there like me, the problem is not a lack of information - it’s too much information, without a definitive source. Whatever errors or misconceptions I have are not due to lack of research - I’ve spent 9 months reading up on info, the science behind it, more logs than you could imagine before taking this plunge. Hopefully this comes though.

Who am I? I am 36 year old engineering executive. I’ve been training off and on since I was in the Army 18 years ago. Until I was 25, I was pretty intense - 2 hours/day at the gym, average. I never looked like a BB or PL, but I was built like a linebacker. Well, I went into the civilian world, got married, had kids, moved into middle management…those of you who’ve been through it know when you’re focusing on your career, middle management is the grueling. 80 hours/week was nothing unusual, coupled with raising two sons, being married, etc…trips to the gym became less frequent, then they stopped altogether.

Between the ages of 29 and 33, I made it to the gym maybe twice a month; more to pretend to myself I still worked out than actually accomplishing anything. I got soft. Beer belly. Couldn’t do 100 push-ups without breaking a sweat anymore. Then I couldn’t do 100 push-ups. Then I couldn’t do 50.

3 years ago I got promoted to CTO, and my time (and outlook changed). The pressures of being an executive are INTENSE - you are ALWAYS one decision away from being fired - but the time demands are much, much less. I make my own schedule, now. I have a secretary to handle time-killing tasks. Money is no longer something I have to worry about - I can afford to hire a nanny to help with the boys, maids come twice a week to clean the house, blah blah (you didn’t come here to read about me brag about being rich, but I will say this: if you’re thinking about becoming rich, you should. It’s pretty nice.)

So, I now had time, and so I decided to wanted that linebacker body back, before my body began the long, gradual decline into old age. So I started working out intensely again. 3 days a week weights, 3 days a week kick-boxing (for cardio), 1 day rest. The individual components within change every 6 - 8 weeks, but the basic break-down has been the same: 3 days a week at the gym, 3 days a week at the dojo. I went from 260 lbs, 30% body fat, to my current stats (which will be outlined below). I look good, dammit. But I’ve been plateaued where I am for about a year, and I think TRT (or a little bit more than TRT) can help push me over the edge.

So, here are my stats (I don’t use the metric system, so you can do your own centimeter/kilo conversions. We won the goddamn war):

Male, 36
Height: 6’2"
Weight: 225 lbs
Bodyfat: 12 - 13% - I weigh myself first thing every Monday morning, and my scale has the BF feature. Basically you can see my abs, though I’m not shredded or anything. I’m hoping this cycle helps some with my BF %.
Diet: I have been on the anabolic diet for the past two years and I love it. I’ve got it dialed in to the point where I don’t really count carbs or track my food; I know where I’m at in my head. I also know what tweaks I need to make for maintenance, weight gain, weight loss, etc.
Workout: I will be doing a 4 day at the gym, 2 day at the dojo routine. Gym is about 2 hours, dojo is about an hour. I’ve moved from dutch kickboxing to Muy Thai, which has a tremendous amount of short, high-intensity bursts. Lots of tabata series, what-have-you.

My goal is to go from 225 to 240, while bringing my bodyfat under 10%. So I’m thinking I need to gain 20 pounds of muscle and lose 5 pounds of fat. I’ll be tweaking the anabolic diet a bit to include slightly more complex carbs on weekdays (probably 35g or so) at week 8 of my cycle, under the theory that the first 8 weeks energy to build muscle will come from current fat stores. This means I need an influx of muscle mass at the start of the cycle, which leads to my cycle:

Test-E: 500mg/week; 250mg pins twice/week. weeks 1 - 12. Reason: Test is the foundation for most cycles, and Test-E is a good newbie start. 500 mg is a standard dose.

Dbol: 30mg/day, weeks 1 - 5. Reason: I need muscle-building activity engaged right at the start of the cycle to deplete fat reserves, since my daily carb intake is so low. Dbol will help me get good pumps right out of the gate, water-storage in the muscle stimulates burning the fat in the absence of carbs or other cheap energy. I’ll be taking Liv52 during this time to help liver health.

Arimidex: I could use some help here. I want to control bloat, so I’m thinking .5 adex EOD, but research here is all over the place. I was planning on .5 EOD for weeks 1 - 12, to help control sides and bloat - but what about running it straight all the way through until the end of PCT? Any advice (or better yet, links to research or successful cycle logs) is appreciated.

Weeks 13 - 14 will be empty while the test clears my system. PCT starts week 15.

Week 15 (PCT): Nolvadex 40mg/day
Week 16 (PCT): Nolvadex 40mg/day
Week 17 (PCT): Nolvadex 20mg/day
Week 18 (PCT): Nolvadex 20mg/day

And that’s it! I have Clomid on hand in case gyno or other sides raise their head despite the adex, although I think that’s a pretty low possibility given it’s a pretty basic cycle.

Everything is already in hand - GP brand, all from a very reliable source (nationally competitive over-50 bodybuilder; he used to be my first-sergeant when I served). I plan on starting my cycle next Monday (Nov 5th). I just completed an 8 week workout routine, and I always give myself 1 week of rest between routines to let muscles heal, and I want my cycle to start when I start my new routine. This will also give me time to make any modifications necessary through feedback.

OK…fire away! Where am I fucking up?

Too Sanorastorm: Sound’s good.I am an old school ex competitor and my drug of choice was testosterone enanthate.I was reading a article by the late: Mr.Dan Duchaine,he said and i know this to be true.People make their most impressive gain’s when their new to drug’s.The healthful thing about his theory is why use outrages amount’s and only be able to utilize a small amount? Steroid’s are like other drug’s.Why build a tolerance in the 1st cycle.The longer testosterone cycle was what the most successful competitor’s use.There is harm in immediate gratification.Why cause your body to prematurely stop the natural production of testosterone by using a high dose,when you can make excellent gain’s on a lower amount.Remember you can alway’s increase,but there is a saturation point.The point where the health risk,outway’s the muscle gain. this is just some feed back. I wish you the best john

Looks good. Pct looks good.

I would run the adex at .25mg EOD and adjust the dose need be. AI dosing differs from one person to the next so you may need more or .25 is plenty. Run it till the last week of pct, tapering down the dose in the last week. Running arimidex and Nolva together in pct isn’t a good idea, the adex can make the Nolva less effective.

I would have extra Nolva on hand for gyno not clomid.

Thanks both of you for your input. I have the clomid around mostly as an alternative to the nolva, in the event nolva isn’t working for some reason. I would definitely prefer not resorting to clomid, as the sides apparently make you feel emotional like a woman.

I really appreciate the encouragement and feedback.

Hey John, thanks for chipping in. Do you think the 500mg of Test-E is too high for a first does? What I read said that 300mg and less was pretty much a TRT-level dose; 500 seemed like the recommended first dose. You think I should be going with less?

[quote]johnny k53 wrote:
Too Sanorastorm: Sound’s good.I am an old school ex competitor and my drug of choice was testosterone enanthate.I was reading a article by the late: Mr.Dan Duchaine,he said and i know this to be true.People make their most impressive gain’s when their new to drug’s.The healthful thing about his theory is why use outrages amount’s and only be able to utilize a small amount? Steroid’s are like other drug’s.Why build a tolerance in the 1st cycle.The longer testosterone cycle was what the most successful competitor’s use.There is harm in immediate gratification.Why cause your body to prematurely stop the natural production of testosterone by using a high dose,when you can make excellent gain’s on a lower amount.Remember you can alway’s increase,but there is a saturation point.The point where the health risk,outway’s the muscle gain. this is just some feed back. I wish you the best john[/quote]

500mg a week is a great first dose. Have at it

If your goal is to go from 225-240, 300mg aint gonna cut it.

500-600mg seems to be the sweet spot. enjoy it

ps: your wife is in for a treat

[quote]SonoraStorm wrote:
Hey John, thanks for chipping in. Do you think the 500mg of Test-E is too high for a first does? What I read said that 300mg and less was pretty much a TRT-level dose; 500 seemed like the recommended first dose. You think I should be going with less?

[quote]johnny k53 wrote:
Too Sanorastorm: Sound’s good.I am an old school ex competitor and my drug of choice was testosterone enanthate.I was reading a article by the late: Mr.Dan Duchaine,he said and i know this to be true.People make their most impressive gain’s when their new to drug’s.The healthful thing about his theory is why use outrages amount’s and only be able to utilize a small amount? Steroid’s are like other drug’s.Why build a tolerance in the 1st cycle.The longer testosterone cycle was what the most successful competitor’s use.There is harm in immediate gratification.Why cause your body to prematurely stop the natural production of testosterone by using a high dose,when you can make excellent gain’s on a lower amount.Remember you can alway’s increase,but there is a saturation point.The point where the health risk,outway’s the muscle gain. this is just some feed back. I wish you the best john[/quote]
[/quote]
Brother: Steroid’s are far from am exact science.I am not opposing the other men on the forum.they suggest 500mg’ per week,250 x 2. Im 53 and your i believe 37.The injectable t-enanthate,or depo-testostwerone mean’s it’s deposited and slowly seep’s into the blood stream. Say you did start with 300mg’ and after 2-week’s unsatisatory result’s,well then up it to 500mg’s As for the dianabol,that was legal in 1980 and available from any dr.The dose was 5mg tablet’s People took 3x5-15mg’s a day in closing you have prior experience and muscle,moreover your rate of progress will be better as you have been ther before. Just like in management,people earn their way to the top. Congratulation’s on your return as a Linebacker johnny

[quote]johnny k53 wrote:

[quote]SonoraStorm wrote:
Hey John, thanks for chipping in. Do you think the 500mg of Test-E is too high for a first does? What I read said that 300mg and less was pretty much a TRT-level dose; 500 seemed like the recommended first dose. You think I should be going with less?

[quote]johnny k53 wrote:
Too Sanorastorm: Sound’s good.I am an old school ex competitor and my drug of choice was testosterone enanthate.I was reading a article by the late: Mr.Dan Duchaine,he said and i know this to be true.People make their most impressive gain’s when their new to drug’s.The healthful thing about his theory is why use outrages amount’s and only be able to utilize a small amount? Steroid’s are like other drug’s.Why build a tolerance in the 1st cycle.The longer testosterone cycle was what the most successful competitor’s use.There is harm in immediate gratification.Why cause your body to prematurely stop the natural production of testosterone by using a high dose,when you can make excellent gain’s on a lower amount.Remember you can alway’s increase,but there is a saturation point.The point where the health risk,outway’s the muscle gain. this is just some feed back. I wish you the best john[/quote]
[/quote]

Say you did start with 300mg’ and after 2-week’s unsatisatory result’s,well then up it to 500 [/quote]

After 2 weeks you wouldn’t see any results at 300mg a week let alone 500mg a week.

Seriously, how many people actually read all of that and didn’t just skip to the end for the actual relevant information?

Very good and safe first cycle.

If I was rich… The cycles I would run…

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
Seriously, how many people actually read all of that and didn’t just skip to the end for the actual relevant information?[/quote]

not me, I skipped

Sonora good luck and keep us posted. I am around the same stats, and getting ready to start a 10 week Test Prop @ 100mg eod, adex .25mg eod.

I read the whole thing. Good story, looking forward to READING the log and results.

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
Seriously, how many people actually read all of that and didn’t just skip to the end for the actual relevant information?[/quote]

I don’t disagree man, it was definitely a wall of text :slight_smile:

But I figured if I was thorough, then if I was doing anything shit-brained stupid, people would at least see I thought it through and came to the wrong conclusion, rather than the standard “not ready/more research” line.

OK, so I start my cycle one week from today; today is my rest week between routines. The next routine I’m going to start is a 4 day weight, 2 day muy thai routine. To keep myself motivated, and to gather feedback on my routine, I’ll spend this week outlining my day-by-day routine in detail. In general, I follow my routines every day EXACTLY. I use the iOS app Physique to track my routines, and by following the same thing every day for the entire routine’s length, I can be absolutely sure of the progress I’m making. In general, I believe by staying on top of my diet, and if the weight I’m pushing is constantly improving, my body will make progress as well.

This routine is a 4 day heavy/light split. 1 day upper body heavy, 1 day lower body heavy, 1 day upper body light, 1 day lower body light. The thought is that by alternating between low rep/high weight and high rep/low weight, your body is continuously shocked and doesn’t get as much of an opportunity to adapt. It’s my go-to routine when I want to build lean mass, as opposed to bulking or cutting. I’ve put on 15 lbs naturally with it over 8 weeks in the past, although I was young and much more bad-ass back then. :stuck_out_tongue: Some but not all exercises overlap between heavy/light days.

MONDAY - Upper body (heavy)
Bench Press: 3 warm-up sets, increasing in weight, no rest between them, 6 reps each, focus is on form and stretching the muscle.
3 working sets, 6 reps each, as much weight as I can push, 3 minutes rest between. If I can do 6 reps, increase weight by 5 pounds. If I can’t get 3 up, decrease by 5 pounds.

Bent-Over Row: 3 warm up sets, 6 reps, same warm-up strategy as above.
3 working sets, 6 reps each, 3 minutes rest, same progressive overload strategy as above.

Incline Bench press (dumbbells): 1 warm-up set, 8 reps.
3 full sets, 8 reps/set, 2 minutes rest, standard progressive overload strategy.

Lat Pulldown: 1 warm-up set, 8 reps.
3 full sets, 8 reps/set, 2 minutes rest, standard progressive overload strategy.

Lateral raise w/ dumbbells: 2 full sets, 10 reps/set, 1 minute rest, standard progressive overload.
Note: My shoulders are my best feature - its why I look like a linebacker when I’m in shape. I just think about lifting weight and they start growing. Likewise, my back is my weakest feature, and I’ve never had the true V-shaped back with dynamite wings. So I’m putting more emphasis on back then shoulders this routine.

Curl w/ barbell: 2 full sets, 10 reps/set, 1 minute rest, standard progressive overload strategy.

Skull Crusher w/ EZ-bar: 2 full sets, 10 reps/set, 1 minute rest, standard progressive overload strategy.

Shrug, dumbbell: 2 full sets, 10 reps/set, 1 minute rest, standard progressive overload.

And that will be my Mondays! Entire routine takes about 75 minutes, I usually finish up with 10 - 15 minutes of a brisk run on the treadmill while I drink an Isopure.

Any feedback is welcome. Happy Monday everyone.

I’ve been talking with a buddy of mine who trains pretty hard and has a lot more experience with gear than I do, and I think I’m going to switch up my workout. Investigating a HIML-4 routine - does anyone have experience with HIML-4?

OK, I’ve decided on and designed a HIML-4 workout. Basic premise is the workout takes 4 weeks to complete 1 cycle, and the routine is made of 4 cycles, takes 16 weeks. I posted a link to an example, but spammers and trolls ruined it for everyone, so I guess links aren’t allowed. If you’re not familiar with HIML, here’s the premise:

Week 1: Heavy lifts (5-7 reps)
Week 2: Intense lifts (6 - 10 reps, focusing on explosion and speed)
Week 3: Medium lifts (8 - 12 reps, just short of failure)
Week 4: Light lifts (15 - 20 reps, focus on form a negatives)

Hence, HIML-4

Basic days are: Monday chest, Tuesday legs, Wed Muy Thai, Thurs Shoulders, Fri Back, Sat Muy Thai, Sunday off

I can’t wait for Monday. It’s very hard to hold off, but the discipline in sticking to the plan is indicative of discipline to succeed in other areas of life. But damn…I can’t wait to start my cycle!