Gear Supplies Drying Up?

Pharma / TRT
21

What are the signs of a dose/cycle that is too large? What other than acne or hair-loss [for some], HPTA shutdown occurs? I just do not recall reading anything of this nature. I think that is discussion should not have any cost of gear or cost/benefit remark; or [changing] availability of gear. There are three issues been discussed at the same time.

(I think that testicular shutdown should be avoided at all costs. If cycles involved brain shrinkage and recovery the problem would seem obvious. The testes are a vital organ, just ask someone on TRT.)

We do not have any LD50 data. The strange thing about all of this is that with other forms [of government defined substance abuse] there are clear and obvious health issues. [knowledgeable] Guys on gear are very health aware and are improving their body and diet. Something not seen in any other form of “abuse” that I am aware of.

22

O.k.

There is clear and obvious problems of Steroid abuse.

Here is an example. Precontest prep I walked into the Medical clinic for some precontest blood work.

Now during the bulk season I had run two cycles, mostly consisting of close to 1.5 gram of test, .5 of tren, dbol or tbol, and femara as an anti E.

Now I work with cardiac patients on a daily basis, so I know what there blood work looks like, and I have to say mine was way worse! Talk about a wake up call!

Here is some of it for all Eyes to see!

Total Cholesterol

Norms 0.0 -5.2

My level:

6.28!

Cholesterol random:

Norms <5.2

My level: 6.3

Cholesterl /HDL Ratio
Norms <=5

my level: 12.6

LDL cholesterol (the bad stuff that will line your arteries)

Norms < 3.4

my level: 5.0 (even heart attack patients don’t have level’s the bad!)

HDL (good cholesterol that is suppose to protect you from the bad stuff!)

Norms >= .9

My level:
0.5
Triglycerides (bad fats)

Norms .1 - 2.2

My level: 1.78 (a good thing I eat clean and don’t live off big mac’s)

Liver Function:

Alk Phsophatase

Norms
50-136

my level 49

ALT (SGPT)

Norms 25-65

my level 125

AST (SGOT) 7-40

my level 49

Creatinine (Serum)

Norms 55-125

My level:143 (not too worried about this one I think)

BUN

Norms 0.00 - 7.10

my level 7.3 (not to worried of this either)

Hemoglobin

Norms 140-180

My level: 176

And I walked into that doctor’s office feeling as healthy as a horse!

So, since then I have cut my dosages in 1/3, and for the most part cut the use of oral steroids just to these last three weeks headed into the show, and at that in very small conservative dosages: i.e.

10- 20 mg of oral winny, 20mg of var.

I will get my blood work reevaluated about 3 weeks following the show (when have had a chance to stop orals for a while) and see where I am at.

If my levels are much more palatable then my argument (along with my placing in the show) will be enough amunition to convince some of you of what I am saying has a lot of weight.

The premise:

The extra 2/3 of gear you may use that you actually do not need, could be dramatically effecting your health needlessly.

Stay tuned!

23

People still do not get the basic fundental reason for the test taper!!

It is not to restore the HPTA as quickly or efficiently as possible!

This method is the HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

(there I said it ten times hopefully it will sink in now)

method of recovery.

both physically, mentally, and spiritually.

the transistion is so smooth the body never goes into shock.

24

LMFAO!

Classic. Nice to see some things never change. For the record I feel the best amount of AAS to use is always none. HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!

25

Interesting Thread

I came to the conclusion i was using too much gear the first time I tapered off. I was using over a gram of test along with tren and d-bol. During tapering for about a month i was using maybe 200mg of test and nothing in my physique or strength had changed from my previous dosages. Since then i have never pushed the total 1gram mark. Lately i have been using 300mg of test E and 200mg masteron a week and am haveing great results. I plan to start tapering. I’m not going to lie im a little nervous as i have been on for 10 months now. I plan on posting my results so we will see how it goes

26

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
O.k.

There is clear and obvious problems of Steroid abuse.

Here is an example. Precontest prep I walked into the Medical clinic for some precontest blood work.

Now during the bulk season I had run two cycles, mostly consisting of close to 1.5 gram of test, .5 of tren, dbol or tbol, and femara as an anti E.

Now I work with cardiac patients on a daily basis, so I know what there blood work looks like, and I have to say mine was way worse! Talk about a wake up call!

Here is some of it for all Eyes to see!

Total Cholesterol

Norms 0.0 -5.2

My level:

6.28!

Cholesterol random:

Norms <5.2

My level: 6.3

Cholesterl /HDL Ratio
Norms <=5

my level: 12.6

LDL cholesterol (the bad stuff that will line your arteries)

Norms < 3.4

my level: 5.0 (even heart attack patients don’t have level’s the bad!)

HDL (good cholesterol that is suppose to protect you from the bad stuff!)

Norms >= .9

My level:
0.5
Triglycerides (bad fats)

Norms .1 - 2.2

My level: 1.78 (a good thing I eat clean and don’t live off big mac’s)

Liver Function:

Alk Phsophatase

Norms
50-136

my level 49

ALT (SGPT)

Norms 25-65

my level 125

AST (SGOT) 7-40

my level 49

Creatinine (Serum)

Norms 55-125

My level:143 (not too worried about this one I think)

BUN

Norms 0.00 - 7.10

my level 7.3 (not to worried of this either)

Hemoglobin

Norms 140-180

My level: 176

And I walked into that doctor’s office feeling as healthy as a horse!

So, since then I have cut my dosages in 1/3, and for the most part cut the use of oral steroids just to these last three weeks headed into the show, and at that in very small conservative dosages: i.e.

10- 20 mg of oral winny, 20mg of var.

I will get my blood work reevaluated about 3 weeks following the show (when have had a chance to stop orals for a while) and see where I am at.

If my levels are much more palatable then my argument (along with my placing in the show) will be enough amunition to convince some of you of what I am saying has a lot of weight.

The premise:

The extra 2/3 of gear you may use that you actually do not need, could be dramatically effecting your health needlessly.

Stay tuned!

[/quote]

Dang, thats some freaky shit man…

interesting info…appreciate it.

27

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
People still do not get the basic fundental reason for the test taper!!

It is not to restore the HPTA as quickly or efficiently as possible!

This method is the HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

HEALTHIEST

(there I said it ten times hopefully it will sink in now)

method of recovery.

both physically, mentally, and spiritually.

the transistion is so smooth the body never goes into shock.[/quote]

I can see your point of view that it is the halthiest and it seem pretty logical to me.

But I’m just a little confused as to why you state that the purpose of the taper is NOT to restore the HPTA as quickly or eficiently as possible.

Apologies if I’m completely off the mark with this and correct me if I’m wrong, since I have not read your test taper thread in quite a while.

But didnt you maintain throughout that thread that this IS the most effective way to restore your HPTA?? If it is not the most effective way then what, in your opinion, is the most effective PCT protocol (strictly from a HPTA recovery standpoint)??? (I’m assuming your not gonna suggest anthony roberts protocol…lol)

I also notice that you have somewhat amended your taper protocol to allow for the possible need/use of clomid/nolva therapy after the taper is over (again, its been a while since I read your taper thread so I could well be mistaken here)…just curious, what caused this amendment to your protocol??

Sorry for all the Q’s mate, just curious for your input and a little clarification as I’m giving a lot of consideration to using the taper method in the future…

Good thread BTW…

28

Well the ol saying about the turtle and the hare - sometimes slow and easy wins the race.

In this case the taper protocol in my view is better, as it gives time for your body to readjust to natural levels of hormones. The entire reason for the waiting period is to get rid of the excess of other hormones, and to allow the ‘lag’ in your bodie’s sysems to catch up.

Nothing has really changed.

The reason why I mention the use of clomid or nolva e.t.c following the taper is because I don’t feel it belongs inside the taper where you are trying to achieve NATURAL homeostasis (that’s without any foreign compounds other then the testosterone you are weaning off of)

Following as I said, get your blood work done, get your sperm count done and evaluate where you are at.

If you are not satisfied it is at this point where you are in position to use what you need to say increase test levels or sperm count. I also commented though that this is likely unneccessary.

29

Speaking of high doses and poor lipid profiles, here’s a before and after. Before is on 1g of test and 500mg masteron per week. I tapered over about five weeks to 200mg/wk test. I kept the same diet and activity level. I also maintained my 135lb weight during this time, and still do at 200mg/wk.

3/20/07 - 5/11/07

Before/After/Normal

Total—212/160/120-199
HDL—32/32/40-59
LDL—170/128/1-99

Triglycerides—149/30/?

AST—53/50/10-37

AST has always been high, and I’m not too worried. I haven’t used orals in quite a long time and I don’t drink at all. It hasn’t gotten worse so I just let it be. The cholesterol isn’t too spectacular, but for eight weeks and a five week taper in that time, I think it’s a great short-term improvement.

I’ve had blood work done during moderate cycles of 500-600mg/wk and it never looked this bad. There are certainly better results with 1g+ cycles, but not so much that it outweighs the health risks (for me at least).

On a side note, I’m prescribed HRT at 100mg/wk. I choose to do 200mg/wk becuase I feel so much better in every way possible. I sleep better, feel more motivated, have more energy, bigger appetite, huge sex drive, no mood depression at all, etc. I don’t get this same benefit with 100mg/wk, but I also begin to lose this benefit once I go higher up in dose, as in 500 mg/wk.

At 1000+ mg/wk I seem to have the opposite effect: I get depressed, my sex drive plummets, I am always tired, etc.

I thought that maybe It’s the testosterone/estrogen balance, because if I take one dose of letrozole I feel great the next day or two (as if on 200mg/wk), then it levels off again. If i take a continued dose of letrozole or arimidex (and I’ve tried each at every possible dose) along with the higher test I just can’t seem to maintain a feel-good medium like I do with 200mg/wk.

I’ve heard that some guys just get depressed and/or their sex drive drops off, etc. when going too high with the dosage. Does anyone know the mechanism of this?

30

I’ll also note that if I take even 10mg of nolvadex per day (I do very occasionally If I need to control some water retention) I get moody and depressed and I feel like crying over stupid things.

Within a day or two of not taking it I feel fine. At 20mg I’ll get hot flashes pretty regularly. It seems a bit ridiculous. Maybe this will shed more light on my situation, maybe not.

31

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
O.k.

There is clear and obvious problems of Steroid abuse.

Here is an example. Precontest prep I walked into the Medical clinic for some precontest blood work.

Now during the bulk season I had run two cycles, mostly consisting of close to 1.5 gram of test, .5 of tren, dbol or tbol, and femara as an anti E.

Now I work with cardiac patients on a daily basis, so I know what there blood work looks like, and I have to say mine was way worse! Talk about a wake up call!

Here is some of it for all Eyes to see!

Total Cholesterol

Norms 0.0 -5.2

My level:

6.28!

Cholesterol random:

Norms <5.2

My level: 6.3

Cholesterl /HDL Ratio
Norms <=5

my level: 12.6

LDL cholesterol (the bad stuff that will line your arteries)

Norms < 3.4

my level: 5.0 (even heart attack patients don’t have level’s the bad!)

HDL (good cholesterol that is suppose to protect you from the bad stuff!)

Norms >= .9

My level:
0.5
Triglycerides (bad fats)

Norms .1 - 2.2

My level: 1.78 (a good thing I eat clean and don’t live off big mac’s)

Liver Function:

Alk Phsophatase

Norms
50-136

my level 49

ALT (SGPT)

Norms 25-65

my level 125

AST (SGOT) 7-40

my level 49

Creatinine (Serum)

Norms 55-125

My level:143 (not too worried about this one I think)

BUN

Norms 0.00 - 7.10

my level 7.3 (not to worried of this either)

Hemoglobin

Norms 140-180

My level: 176

And I walked into that doctor’s office feeling as healthy as a horse!

So, since then I have cut my dosages in 1/3, and for the most part cut the use of oral steroids just to these last three weeks headed into the show, and at that in very small conservative dosages: i.e.

10- 20 mg of oral winny, 20mg of var.

I will get my blood work reevaluated about 3 weeks following the show (when have had a chance to stop orals for a while) and see where I am at.

If my levels are much more palatable then my argument (along with my placing in the show) will be enough amunition to convince some of you of what I am saying has a lot of weight.

The premise:

The extra 2/3 of gear you may use that you actually do not need, could be dramatically effecting your health needlessly.

Stay tuned!

[/quote]

Haha sounds like the old Dave Tate.

And to still a quote from him recently, ‘?I think what people have to realize,? said Dave, ?is that elite levels of any sport aren?t healthy. We?re not doing this for our health. We?re doing it for competition. I mean look at the way I ate for years. You ever see that movie Super Size Me? Fuck, I did that for years. The problem with that guy is that he didn?t do it long enough.?’

32

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:

Haha sounds like the old Dave Tate.

And to still a quote from him recently, ‘?I think what people have to realize,? said Dave, ?is that elite levels of any sport aren?t healthy. We?re not doing this for our health. We?re doing it for competition. I mean look at the way I ate for years. You ever see that movie Super Size Me? Fuck, I did that for years. The problem with that guy is that he didn?t do it long enough.?’[/quote]

lol! words truely spoken!

33

Scary stuff your blood profile P22!
Thanx for sharing

I’ve read that some roids like Winstrol wreak havok on blood lipid profiles while some like Anavar aint so bad.

Maybe it should be for another thread entirely, but if your premise is right that “all AAS really does is suppress adrenal fuction - the gland that secretes cortisol - The catabolic steroid you naturally produce that causes retention of water, accumulation of fat, and skeletal muscle loss”…

… then maybe the future is finding natural supplements that will help with suppressing adrenal function. Any supplements out there have any benefits to restore burnt out adrenals and/or suppress “excess” cortisol? That’d be great for PCT at the very least

BTW your thread title scares me!

34

[quote]SwD wrote:
… then maybe the future is finding natural supplements that will help with suppressing adrenal function. Any supplements out there have any benefits to restore burnt out adrenals and/or suppress “excess” cortisol? That’d be great for PCT at the very least
[/quote]

an excellent supp to restore the adrenals is Adrena+ by genuine health. i used this in december along with their Liv-tone (liver restore), both at double dose when i had burnt out my adrenals.

the problem with your magic bullet PCT supplement idea is that those are two opposing sides of the same coin, the adrenals get burnt out by being signaled to produce too much cortisol, so finding something that stimulates it to work but keeps it from producing too much is unlikely.

dealing with the causes of cortisol elevation while using tonic herbs and following a clean diet are the best ways as of yet to deal with adrenal fatigue.

35

Hey P22 funny you should mention this because I have run some heavier cycles in the past and just recently have decided with this one to cut my doses down. So far I’m making excellent gains on 500 mg test a week and 50 mg var.

I’m only going to run the var for 4 weeks and will overlap the fourth week with 50-75 mg tren either ed or eod for another 4 weeks and overlap the fourth week with masteron at 300 mg a week for another 4 week and then most likely begin a test taper or go for another 4 week overlap with 40 mg tbol then start the test taper.

Quick question P22? I’m sure it’s been covered before but just one more time. If one was doing a cycle without test but they had test on hand for the end of a cycle and agreed that the test taper is a valid and healthy method of coming off would the protocol you recommend still apply?

36

There is a product called Reset AD that I’ve been trying lately wich is supposed to help restore your adrenals and make stimulant based products/energy drinks ect. ect. work like they did before the individual built up a tolerance. So far I dont’ notice a ton from it and have been using it for a little over a week. If things change I’ll mention it.

37

I am busy getting ready for this weekends show, then going on holidays for a week. I will have to comment on all this (and my pm’s) when I get back

Regards.

Pris