T Nation

Gear Supplies Drying Up?

Well I will say this: Maybe it is time for all to wake up and also realise that many of us have been using way too much gear then we actually need to use.

How often do you hear and read of cycles approaching the 1.5-2 grams per week and beyond?

I know I have been guilty of this.

But the truth of the matter is that we have all be using excessive amounts, and part of the problem as my understanding and experience has grown, I have found to be that much of the AAS theory out there is missguided and wrong.

I know longer believe in the class theory. There is no Class I and ClassII difference between steroids

one class being more androgenic than the other and binding more ‘advidly’ to the AR thereby directly causing muscular hypertrophy, while the other class works weakly on the AR, and therefore less suppressive, and operates by either increasing creatine retention and blunting catabolism.

This is all bunk theory! And the fact that as you build more muscle you grow more androgen receptors, therefore you need to use more gear? Total B.S!

I don’t think your body creates anymore androgen receptors at all.

From my experience and knowledge I have picked up, I now am a firm believer that all AAS really does is suppress adrenal fuction - the gland that secretes cortisol - The catabolic steroid you naturally produce that causes retention of water, accumulation of fat, and skeletal muscle loss.

Once suppression of adrenal function is adequately achieved using more steroids is not going to cause more suppression. The notion that you develop more androgen receptors and therefore need more AAS to bind to these receptors is missguided, and therefore the idea of needing to use more and more AAS is as well.

Basically the body fights to achieve homeostasis by producing the binding globulins to bind up free AAS. Once your body catches up in this process, there isn’t much else you can do, as your gains will return simularly to that of being natural. Going off gear, waiting, then returing back on is the only option to kick start the process of hypertrophy again.

Timing peaks in diet, training, rest, with the start of a new cycle is what gets you past your previous plateau, not increasing dosages.

The key is giving enough time between cycle to allow your body to normalize.

I still advocate the test taper hughely in this process - and even more so, as allowing the body to plunge from having fully supressed adrenal functions for long periods of time to none at all over a short period is very unhealthy.

So to sum up, in the end yes gear may become way more expensive, but lets get real, most of us has been using way more than we actually need, -erring hugely on the wrong side of caution and pissing probably a good 3/4 of it into the toilet unused and bound.

As always most insightful comments P22.

I don’t know what everyone else pays and I do fully support the practice of never discussing sources but I think I could for the theme of the thread discuss prices. I pay $45 USD for a 10ml vial of Test E or C at 250mg/ml. [Not sure how this price compares with others; better than some, not as good as a few I suspect] So, if I ran lets say a gram of Enanthate or Cyp a week it would cost me $18USD. Knowing how potent a gram of Test is $18 seems ridiculously cheap. Especially given I can only buy 5-6 gallons of gas for that same $18.

If prices were to rise I personally don’t think it would change my dosages. Heck, if my domestic source doubled his prices I’d still consider $36 USD a week a payable price for a gram of Test, knowing what it does and knowing the value of $36USD

Personally, I’ve not quite yet hit the 1.5-2G a week level myself yet. My two highest dosed cycles so far have been 750Test/450Deca a week for 1200mg’s a week and 500Test/300Deca and 40mg ED Dbol. I personally have been rather slow to increase my own dosages considering I’ve got 4 full 12 week cycles and a couple of random 6-8 weekers as well.

It sort of depends on what you use too. I have not dived into the Tren pool yet but I know the prices are substantially higher than Test. This fall I was considering a gram of week of Test and 50-75mg ED of Tren Ace cycle. That would cost me in the neighborhood of $50 a week. Again, think about what $50 means to use. How much to we spend on protein [both whole food and powders] a week? Also that would be 7 cycles to maybe reach 1.5grams a week and that’s if I work up to 75mg ED on the Tren.

Finally, to address the drying up part. I don’t think no matter how many busts there are we will ever dry of the UGL’s and international suppliers. For every one that goes down two or three more seems to spring up. As aforementioned, if I had to I’d pay double what I currently pay for quality gear. [Don’t tell my domestic source]

Not trying to refute or deny P22’s claims; just adding some of my own here. One brotherhood of gear.

I have no idea if you are right or not, it doesn’t really matter I guess. But I will say that test gives me eczema that I have to treat with hydrocortisone.

Well i have been doing this for many years and God knows i too am guilty of what P22 describes. With all the UG stuff being so cheap a gram a week seemed like just maintenance for a long time. Then i had a big mental crash over some unrelated issues and weaned myself off the steroids, since i have done some shorter cycles with much lower doses and have been shocked at how well i responded… i can’t say for sure if what P22 says is right or wrong but the evidence i have experienced would suggest validity.

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P22, you have a good physique mate.
Not sure of your actual size.

From my experience, most of the very big lads, semi-pro or whatever, use far more than 1.5g.

3g seems to be an average dose of test for a big guy. This doesn’t include other things.

With regard to your theory, I disagree but I’m not qualified to answer your Q, but I know there are several people on the MuscleTalk.co.uk Test forum who would be well able to answer it.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

I also refute the idea that all AAS does is suppress catabolism via adrenal suppression. If that were true, what would be the point in having ARs in the first place?

No, IMO steroids work via both mechanisms, i.e. they reduce catabolism, PLUS they increase anabolism. Further, so-called class II steroids have NOTICEABLY different effects on the body than class I steroids do - in my experience.
Bushy[/quote]

I was going to say something along these lines. However, I also agree that huge doses don’t really do much over properly planned moderate dosing. It just might take longer to get where you’re going, albeit much healthier.

A large producer (GOKO) was caught producing tablets, which are
illegal over there.
So all those that supplied him are under investigation, I believe
its 4 factories at this time (which I think they shut down) and all
the other factories are too scared to ship, even if they have stock.

This may be for some weeks. I was told 2wks, but I dont know.
I, as well as many others expect prices will be up 30-40% soon, or you may already have noticed suppliers upping them.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
The problem isn’t the busts of UGLs, it’s the fact that the manufacturers of steroid hormone powders, are now being leaned on HEAVILY by the Chinese authorities.

No test powder = no UG gear.

Anyway, onto other things, namely P22s controversial post, lol.

Whilst I agree with the up/down regulation of ARs being a cloudy issue at best, I have to say that I have seen too much with my own eyes to refute the class I/II theory.

I also refute the idea that all AAS does is suppress catabolism via adrenal suppression. If that were true, what would be the point in having ARs in the first place?

No, IMO steroids work via both mechanisms, i.e. they reduce catabolism, PLUS they increase anabolism. Further, so-called class II steroids have NOTICEABLY different effects on the body than class I steroids do - in my experience.

Interesting thread.

Bushy[/quote]

Well I don’t deny that there are AR’s however, I don’t believe they are as important in the process as everyone seems to think.

I don’t know everything but then again who does. I just have come to believe that we all are using way more gear then is needed. Whatever the specific mechanisms may be, the message is I have been using 2/3’s to 3/4 more then I actually need.

And my recomendation is for all to take stock of what they actually use, and realize that out of health concerns and let’s face it gear may become harder to obtain, we all should consider planning cycles that utilize less gear.

P22,

I’ve been searching for your test-taper thread and I can’t find it. If you would do me the favor of posting it I would be grateful.

[quote]Diana Bolann wrote:
P22,

I’ve been searching for your test-taper thread and I can’t find it. If you would do me the favor of posting it I would be grateful.[/quote]

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1134619&pageNo=0

Thanks truepit and p22 for the article.

Ok for everyone that has read the thread, many seem to not understand exactly what the protocol is. So here it is again:

The Waiting period (most important part of the taper)
Week one to six:

100mg per week of test Enanthate or Cypionate divide into two doses for best results

If you were on any anti E’s taper them during this period so that you are completely off everything when the test taper begins!)

Week seven to twelve:
Test taper: test Enanthate or Cypionate divide into two doses for best results

80mg
60mg
50mg
40mg
30mg
20mg

Following the taper, get your bloodwork done, sperm count if you are planning kids e.t.c. and then decide whether nolvadex or clomid is needed to boast levels anymore. It is very likely you will not need any though.

At this point you can also decide to go back on cycle.


[quote]dan nukem wrote:
P22, you have a good physique mate.
Not sure of your actual size.

From my experience, most of the very big lads, semi-pro or whatever, use far more than 1.5g.

3g seems to be an average dose of test for a big guy. This doesn’t include other things.

With regard to your theory, I disagree but I’m not qualified to answer your Q, but I know there are several people on the MuscleTalk.co.uk Test forum who would be well able to answer it.
[/quote]

Currently sitting below 4% bf at a morning weight in the 215 -217 range. (thats the top of the Heavy Weight Class according to IFBB rules)

I am about 5’10" and a bit.

less than a week out of a show.

I will be posting pictures in a few weeks once I get back from holidays of this years progress, and the road to the Canadian National Bodybuilding Championships this year. For all that are interested.

Oh and I am using less than a gram a week

I just can’t see the logic in using a long estered test to taper with.

I don’t want to start a fight over the validity of the taper - but assuming that the taper theory has any merit in the first place - it just seems counter-intuitive to use a long estered test for a taper.

That’s all I have to say about that.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I just can’t see the logic in using a long estered test to taper with.

I don’t want to start a fight over the validity of the taper - but assuming that the taper theory has any merit in the first place - it just seems counter-intuitive to use a long estered test for a taper.

That’s all I have to say about that. [/quote]

You can use test prop, I never said you couldn’t. I personally prefer the longer estered tests.

Just break up the weekly dosages more to ensure steady blood levels.

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Here we go again on the taper debate

I think there is a happy medium between the PCT chem guys and the taper crowd.

IMO, the taper works, but I agree with rainjack, longer esters make it trickier to work (not impossible)

But serms like clomid (which has fallen out of favor) definetly help me recover testicular function.

But back to the thread…now that china is temporarly/permenantly out hte of picture

I’m guessing syno and fina conversions will come back into interest.

I’m also curious if the china thing will effect pricing and availability at the research chem places.

Damn it! I should have ordered some bulk serm, and cialis from those guys when I was ordering test, tren and dianabol powder!

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I have already seen very reliable sources rasing prices 20 to 30 percent. If the powder situation is bad now, I don’t expect that it will last that long maybe 12-18 months, because of supply and demand. If there is demand there will be supply. The Chinese governmment is like any other and after a while their priorties will shift. Powder manufacturing can always shift to a more friendly environment around Asia. That being said, I’ll probably stock up to 24 month inventory level here in the next month or so.