T Nation

Gear Reality

hey guys, i have not posted in my log lately because there has been NOTYHING interesting about my workouts. but yesterday was interesting.

over the last month or so, i have been trying to rehab my low back, by trying to do 100 reps of abds and back raises every training day. i started out with 3-5 sets of 20, then 4x25, and recently (the last week or so i have been doing 3x33)

so i decided to try to box squat heavy.

no if you have been looking at my logs, i have been going RAW on the box squat, and my usual drop out set was about 365-405 for a few reps.

this is how yesterday went.

100% RAW:

  • bar x 25
    -bar x 25
    -135x 10
    -225x5
    -315x3
    -365x3
    -405x2

BELT AND KNEE SLEEVES:
-425x2,
-455x1(tough!)

LOOSE SINGLE PLY INZER POLY BRIEFS(POWER PANTS) ADDED
-485x2(added 5 lbs collars on the here on out)
-505x1

PUT DENIM BRIEFS ON TOP OF THE POLYS
-515x1(took REAL small jumps here on out as i was terrified of getting injured)
-525x1
-535x1
-555x1

ok, i stopped here, i would like to say like EVERYBODY ELSE that i had more in me, but i did not. it came up fast, but i felt bad things in my right knee and groin, my low back and my left outer thigh)

whats the point? i think we all need to reevaluate and take a look inward to how strong we THINK we are, when we use gear. so i can talk like i am a big man saying i squatted 550, but in reality when i see a guy reping 315 in an ATG raw squat(which is about all i can do) i have to be real with myself and say that i am not really stronger than that guy.

great post as i have been curious as to what certain types of gear gives someone for a carryover. i havent used gear before but i must admit at first i think i would be a little scared on going big with the gear on (maybe because i am a pussy).

with that said, props need to go to raw and geared lifters alike as it takes balls no matter how you look at it. i am sure the carryover ranges from person to person. does anybody else have any other carryover stats. thanks in advance and thanks for the good info.

I dont ever use equipment for that reason. But why own the briefs and the suit if you believe the same thing I do?

well, my background is OLing, PL, and throwing, so i have the gear from when i trained to compete in PL.

that is the reality of gear…

geared lifting is to the pole-vault what non-geared lifting is to the high-jump…they’re completely different sports now…

Tommy would always tell me that’s not a perfect analogy because no one gets more than double out of their gear what they can get without it…and I would reply with “for now”…

[quote]SquatDr wrote:
great post as i have been curious as to what certain types of gear gives someone for a carryover. i havent used gear before but i must admit at first i think i would be a little scared on going big with the gear on (maybe because i am a pussy).

with that said, props need to go to raw and geared lifters alike as it takes balls no matter how you look at it. i am sure the carryover ranges from person to person. does anybody else have any other carryover stats. thanks in advance and thanks for the good info. [/quote]

with good coaching and plenty of practice, it would be reasonable for you to get +200 lbs from squat gear and +200 from bench gear (even with IPF approved lifting equipment)…the deadlift is another story, most guys are lucky to get +50 lbs and most don’t even get that (from my observations)…

but as you say, it varies alot from person to person…so it’s nearly impossible to tell you exactly how much you could get…

I get almost 100 lbs from my Inzer HC and Inzer knee wraps.

I am moving onto a metal viking, and the metal gear (single ply) is supposedly as strong as a 2-ply inzer gear.

When someone just casually asks you how much you bench, which is almost daily for me so I assume the same of others, what do you all tell them? Do you give them some number that matches the day you used gear or your raw number?

When someone asks me how much I bench I usually give a sarcastic answer because I dont like where the conversation is headed. Get me started about that stuff and I’ll talk your ear off and bore the hell out of you, I just cant help it. But if I give a legit answer it’s my raw number. If a powerlifter asks what I bench, I would tell him the # with gear, because I know that’s what he’s asking about.

If an Olympic lifter told me what he squatted, I would assume he meant ass to the grass, probably no belt. If a powerlifter told me what he squatted raw, I would assume he meant to parallel, probably wearing a belt. I dont think either of these guys is a liar, it’s just important to look at the context of the conversation.

[quote]DPH wrote:
that is the reality of gear…

geared lifting is to the pole-vault what non-geared lifting is to the high-jump…they’re completely different sports now…

Tommy would always tell me that’s not a perfect analogy because no one gets more than double out of their gear what they can get without it…and I would reply with “for now”…[/quote]

it’s funny you compare it to the pole vault; it’s my understanding that technological advances in the pole are responsible for a lot of todays records. That is, the move from a wooden pole to carbon fiber or any manner of fancy-ass, space age material allows for more bend in the pole, providing for a greater sling shot effect off the ground. Actually, that’s a great analogy now that I think about it, because I’m sure if I got my hands on a carbon pole I’d have no idea how to use it any better than a wooden one, I’d have to learn it.

That’s a funny response tho, I like it.

So let me get this straight- gear makes me able to lift more? Nah, honestly, I think it’s pretty clear that gear is much more about pushing more weight than it is about injury prevention. Come on- If we were truely that scared of getting hurt, we would do pilates or tai chi. That said, I love my cheatin’ gear and eagerly look forward to the next big thing the gear manufacturers put out.

Although, I am surprised that the original poster was getting that kind of carryover out of the items he listed (other than the denim briefs) on a box squat. For me, the lack of bounce/dip on box squats has always neutralized the effect of stretchy briefs and knee wraps. But I supposed everyone is different.

I give them my equipped number, because I have no idea what my raw bench is now. I haven’t taken a raw full range max single in 18 months. You get question that daily? All I usually get is: who did you play for? or are you in the military?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
When someone just casually asks you how much you bench, which is almost daily for me so I assume the same of others, what do you all tell them? Do you give them some number that matches the day you used gear or your raw number?[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
When someone just casually asks you how much you bench, which is almost daily for me so I assume the same of others, what do you all tell them? Do you give them some number that matches the day you used gear or your raw number?[/quote]

I’m with KBC on this one. It is best to just avoid these questions, because no matter what you tell them - 400, 600, 800, whatever - they will have a friend’s brother’s uncle’s next door neighbor’s husband that has done more. If it is a girl you’re talking to, it is likely her boyfriend or brother that accomplished the strength feat, but he no longer “goes heavy” because of a hurt shoulder/back/knee.

“135” is a great answer, because it is true - you CAN bench 135. You can bench a lot of other things, but they don’t need to know that.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
When someone just casually asks you how much you bench, which is almost daily for me so I assume the same of others, what do you all tell them? Do you give them some number that matches the day you used gear or your raw number?[/quote]

I tell them that the bench is just the rest between the squat and the deadlift and that benchers aren’t powerlifters, anyway.

Then I walk away.

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
hey guys, i have not posted in my log lately because there has been NOTYHING interesting about my workouts. but yesterday was interesting.

over the last month or so, i have been trying to rehab my low back, by trying to do 100 reps of abds and back raises every training day. i started out with 3-5 sets of 20, then 4x25, and recently (the last week or so i have been doing 3x33)

so i decided to try to box squat heavy.

no if you have been looking at my logs, i have been going RAW on the box squat, and my usual drop out set was about 365-405 for a few reps.

this is how yesterday went.

100% RAW:

  • bar x 25
    -bar x 25
    -135x 10
    -225x5
    -315x3
    -365x3
    -405x2

BELT AND KNEE SLEEVES:
-425x2,
-455x1(tough!)

LOOSE SINGLE PLY INZER POLY BRIEFS(POWER PANTS) ADDED
-485x2(added 5 lbs collars on the here on out)
-505x1

PUT DENIM BRIEFS ON TOP OF THE POLYS
-515x1(took REAL small jumps here on out as i was terrified of getting injured)
-525x1
-535x1
-555x1

ok, i stopped here, i would like to say like EVERYBODY ELSE that i had more in me, but i did not. it came up fast, but i felt bad things in my right knee and groin, my low back and my left outer thigh)

whats the point? i think we all need to reevaluate and take a look inward to how strong we THINK we are, when we use gear. so i can talk like i am a big man saying i squatted 550, but in reality when i see a guy reping 315 in an ATG raw squat(which is about all i can do) i have to be real with myself and say that i am not really stronger than that guy.[/quote]+

BRAVO! I wish to god that more lifters had your mentality. I have alot of friends that powerlift and i get so sick of having to discuss two sets of numbers everything is always folled by, well thats with the shirt, or briefs, or suit, or suit with straps down. No big deal but to be man enough to accept it for what it is is very noble in my book.

[quote]Pinto wrote:
I give them my equipped number, because I have no idea what my raw bench is now. I haven’t taken a raw full range max single in 18 months. You get question that daily? All I usually get is: who did you play for? or are you in the military?

[/quote]

At my size, most people don’t think I am in the military as their first thought. Yes, I do get that daily. I also haven’t done a barbell bench press in years so my response is either “a lot” or whatever number I put up on HS bench press. In the end, it doesn’t matter. However, I would never wear gear, get an extra 200lbs out of it and then claim that was my real bench when asked.

[quote]RickJames wrote:
Professor X wrote:
When someone just casually asks you how much you bench, which is almost daily for me so I assume the same of others, what do you all tell them? Do you give them some number that matches the day you used gear or your raw number?

I’m with KBC on this one. It is best to just avoid these questions, because no matter what you tell them - 400, 600, 800, whatever - they will have a friend’s brother’s uncle’s next door neighbor’s husband that has done more. If it is a girl you’re talking to, it is likely her boyfriend or brother that accomplished the strength feat, but he no longer “goes heavy” because of a hurt shoulder/back/knee.

“135” is a great answer, because it is true - you CAN bench 135. You can bench a lot of other things, but they don’t need to know that.

[/quote]

I have actually never had anyone tell me they knew someone who could lift as much. I do get some guys say that they used to be really into powerlifting or bodybuilding, throw out some huge body weight they “used to” be up to of solid muscle and how much they used to bench. All of them have somehow shrunk massively since then.

[quote]morepain wrote:
heavythrower wrote:
hey guys, i have not posted in my log lately because there has been NOTYHING interesting about my workouts. but yesterday was interesting.

over the last month or so, i have been trying to rehab my low back, by trying to do 100 reps of abds and back raises every training day. i started out with 3-5 sets of 20, then 4x25, and recently (the last week or so i have been doing 3x33)

so i decided to try to box squat heavy.

no if you have been looking at my logs, i have been going RAW on the box squat, and my usual drop out set was about 365-405 for a few reps.

this is how yesterday went.

100% RAW:

  • bar x 25
    -bar x 25
    -135x 10
    -225x5
    -315x3
    -365x3
    -405x2

BELT AND KNEE SLEEVES:
-425x2,
-455x1(tough!)

LOOSE SINGLE PLY INZER POLY BRIEFS(POWER PANTS) ADDED
-485x2(added 5 lbs collars on the here on out)
-505x1

PUT DENIM BRIEFS ON TOP OF THE POLYS
-515x1(took REAL small jumps here on out as i was terrified of getting injured)
-525x1
-535x1
-555x1

ok, i stopped here, i would like to say like EVERYBODY ELSE that i had more in me, but i did not. it came up fast, but i felt bad things in my right knee and groin, my low back and my left outer thigh)

whats the point? i think we all need to reevaluate and take a look inward to how strong we THINK we are, when we use gear. so i can talk like i am a big man saying i squatted 550, but in reality when i see a guy reping 315 in an ATG raw squat(which is about all i can do) i have to be real with myself and say that i am not really stronger than that guy.+

BRAVO! I wish to god that more lifters had your mentality. I have alot of friends that powerlift and i get so sick of having to discuss two sets of numbers everything is always folled by, well thats with the shirt, or briefs, or suit, or suit with straps down. No big deal but to be man enough to accept it for what it is is very noble in my book.

[/quote]

I think posts like this are fucking hilarious.

Where are these lifters who do not share this mentality? I sure don’t run across that many of them.

The vast majority of lifters I know have realized that you need to strike a balance between enough time focusing on RAW strength and enough time massaging the strength curve and technique required to show up on meet day, maximize equipment and not bomb.

In fact, most lifters I know do not spend adequate time in their gear, IMO.

The bigger problem in this sport is the abandonment of lifting standards. I honestly couldn’t care less what a guy is wearing if they perform solid, respectable lifts. Gear is the number one reason extreme feds have abandoned breaking parallel as the squat standard, and that is horseshit.

For me, learning gear is part of what makes the sport fun.

just fyi

i hit a 640 squat back in 1992 in a single ply poly(frantz) that was loose enough that i could put on by myself (even the straps) in about 2 minutes. i was in the 275lb weight class then.

last year, i hit a 680 of a box with a metal viking and wraps at 255lb bw. at the time i was using 495-515lbs for for speed sets with no caontrast off the box with belt and briefs only. every now and then i would test RAW strength, and at the time i could hit 500-550(depending on how my tissues and back felt) RAW for a max single.

since then i have reinjured my low back that i ruptured three discs about 3 years ago, i think i have stenosis now(MRI pending) and i have lost over 25lbs.

one of the reasons i do more weight off a box(i think) is that when i sqaut ALL the way down, i feel my low back injury more. the box stops me parallel and gives me confidence to take a big(for me) weight without reinjury. the box seems to help my low back problems, as it regulates depth, but seems to bother my groin and outer thighs(wider stance?)ironically.

X wrote:

“I have actually never had anyone tell me they knew someone who could lift as much. I do get some guys say that they used to be really into powerlifting or bodybuilding, throw out some huge body weight they “used to” be up to of solid muscle and how much they used to bench. All of them have somehow shrunk massively since then”

ummmm, that guy is me now…LOL