Gear for Old Men

[quote]SwD wrote:
Yeah it only “sounded good in my head”. Whatever man. If you feel being on drugs all the time is more healthy than more power to you. Everyone justifies their habit any way they can…

If OP has natural low test, he still produces some. And it’s not ALL about the HPTA, recovery, and “keeping gains”. Having elevated test when older can mean a lot of secondary effects, not ALL of which are beneficial. It affects a whole chain of other hormones. That why I believe that going off for a month or two once in a while is a good idea. Sure, you won’t feel as good as while you’re “on”, but that’s not a reason to stay forever on cycle in MY opinion. You don’t have to agree with it, and feel it’s best to be using exogenous hormones all the time but I don’t.

Some drugs you can’t really go off, like patients using thyroid medications. I feel, though, that test levels can come back, even at the low level of old guys, and overall it might be a good idea for health reasons to be completely off any exogenous hormones for a few months out of a year. Wow, did that sounded demented or what! Forget what I wrote, be on drugs all the time!

[/quote]
Hey, I appreciate everyone’s input. Obviously this is not a cut and dried science. I’ve been reading the stickies and taking in everyone’s advice. I can see there is going to be a lot of research involved. Each of you has given me something to think about. Thank you.

[quote]SwD wrote:
Yeah it only “sounded good in my head”. Whatever man. If you feel being on drugs all the time is more healthy than more power to you. Everyone justifies their habit any way they can…

If OP has natural low test, he still produces some. And it’s not ALL about the HPTA, recovery, and “keeping gains”. Having elevated test when older can mean a lot of secondary effects, not ALL of which are beneficial. It affects a whole chain of other hormones. That why I believe that going off for a month or two once in a while is a good idea. Sure, you won’t feel as good as while you’re “on”, but that’s not a reason to stay forever on cycle in MY opinion. You don’t have to agree with it, and feel it’s best to be using exogenous hormones all the time but I don’t.

Some drugs you can’t really go off, like patients using thyroid medications. I feel, though, that test levels can come back, even at the low level of old guys, and overall it might be a good idea for health reasons to be completely off any exogenous hormones for a few months out of a year. Wow, did that sounded demented or what! Forget what I wrote, be on drugs all the time!

[/quote]

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and I think your family tree may not have any branches…

First off, this is not cycling AAS we are talking about in order to get huge and lean…there are tons of studies that show men’s overall risk of death, disease, and general health are negatively impacted by low testosterone…that is the reason they put people on it in the first place, genius…

You say that having “Having elevated test when older can mean a lot of secondary effects” and follow that up with a generic “not all are beneficial” but you don’t list any specific negative impacts, probably because as I’ve already established you don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about. If you can find a single study showing that men who are within range, regardless of age, have negative health impacts, I will bend over backwards and suck my own cock…

And what the hell are you talking about that the only hormone you can’t come off of is thyroid? Technically, thyroid is not that dissimilar from test. You don’t actually have to have a good metabolism, it won’t kill you if you dont! And besides, people on thyroid are making SOME thyroid hormones, so by your backwards ass logic, they could come off for a while too, you know, to “clean up a bit” since “their body is still making some thyroid”…

Oh, and for the record genius, the only hormone that you technically can’t live without is CORTISOL. But you didn’t mention that, because you are clueless where hormones are concerned.

Habit…lol…get fucked

Ah OK fatboy. You win the prize, whatever it is.

BBB, you are right, I don’t only go on “science” and do go on “feeling”, but if we’re honest, most of what we do is based on a mix of the two. Just reading how Tren affects users so differently for example, and it’s clear to me it’s not a black and white issue, and life is always more complex than theory.

TRT is not THAT researched anyway, and reading on the TRT board it’s clear most doctors prescribing TRT and dealing with dozens of patients don’t know half the stuff the posters on that board do for real world results. It’s still a “science” in its infancy.

A decade ago I saw something about a life extension clinic (I think it was on CBS 60 minutes but it was a long time ago). What caught my attention is that officially, they prescribed a cocktail of 7-8 hormones, including test, HGH and melatonin (but don’t remember the others). The doses were VERY small, yet the theory was they acted in synergy to produce pretty drastic results.

It might have been a “front” to cover the fact that some patients were prescribed much higher doses (they showed a pretty damn muscular 72 year old man), or it might have been a good path to develop. Again, I feel the “science” is still in its infancy, but as the saying goes, you can’t stop an army of Baby Boomers with money that don’t want to age! Making many of these drugs illegal or demonizing them set back the research in a big way, but I’m sure immense progress will be made in the next decades as the money is there for sure.

[quote]SwD wrote:
Ah OK fatboy. You win the prize, whatever it is.

[/quote]

I’ve leaned up a bit since my profile pic was taken in May '10…but I guarantee you haven’t gotten any smarter since then lol…there isn’t a lot of hope for you I’m afraid

Just my 2 cents, first go get bloodwork done…total test levels, free test ratio, e2, psa test etc. see where your at ( look under TRT forum). How is your health? high blood pressure? hypercholestremia? Gear will make this worse.
Get on TRT regimen (which is for life, its not a cycling thing), get injections, it doesn’t hurt and is more effective than creams. Search under TRT to see what recommended regimen works for you, (with protocal of TRT place, some TRT offices get 1x injections other give 2-3 injections per week).

Train with that for 6 months to a year, along with arimidex. See where your at then add some HCG, train some more then after a year or 2 of consistent hard training, then look into using gear.

I am 43, had all symptoms of low test, couldn’t lose weight, eratic training, etc. my levels were 200. In last 6 months I have added 1 inch to my arms, added 5" to shoulders & lost 45 lbs without any muscle loss. TRT and hard training may be your answer without all the possible side effects (high blood pressure etc,) of gear. TRT is not AAS, your just getting back your levels that you had in your 20’s, albeit max levels. I thought about using gear, as I get older, but right now I cannot complain about results I have gotten with TRT.
I do have a very good diet and do train very hard.
TRT and half assed training will get you half assed results. basically you will get out of it what you put in. Try it first, then go for the larger doses after you have gotten leaner, bigger, and stronger from the TRT.

^^^This is the right advice. If you have had low test levels for a while, you will make a ton of progress on an optimal TRT dose.

Only thing I disagree with is waiting a year to add in hcg. A lot of men need it much sooner and it makes a ton of QOL difference when added to their regimen. Other men don’t need it at all. YMMV.

[quote]ironwill68 wrote:
Just my 2 cents, first go get bloodwork done…total test levels, free test ratio, e2, psa test etc. see where your at ( look under TRT forum). How is your health? high blood pressure? hypercholestremia? Gear will make this worse.
Get on TRT regimen (which is for life, its not a cycling thing), get injections, it doesn’t hurt and is more effective than creams. Search under TRT to see what recommended regimen works for you, (with protocal of TRT place, some TRT offices get 1x injections other give 2-3 injections per week).

Train with that for 6 months to a year, along with arimidex. See where your at then add some HCG, train some more then after a year or 2 of consistent hard training, then look into using gear.

I am 43, had all symptoms of low test, couldn’t lose weight, eratic training, etc. my levels were 200. In last 6 months I have added 1 inch to my arms, added 5" to shoulders & lost 45 lbs without any muscle loss. TRT and hard training may be your answer without all the possible side effects (high blood pressure etc,) of gear. TRT is not AAS, your just getting back your levels that you had in your 20’s, albeit max levels. I thought about using gear, as I get older, but right now I cannot complain about results I have gotten with TRT.
I do have a very good diet and do train very hard.
TRT and half assed training will get you half assed results. basically you will get out of it what you put in. Try it first, then go for the larger doses after you have gotten leaner, bigger, and stronger from the TRT.[/quote]
Thank Ironwill,
This makes a lot of sense. I have had bloodwork done, and definately have low T. I have no real health issues to make worse. I have no interest in competing, and am not a pro athlete. The idea of feeling and gaining like I did when I was in my 20s really appeals to me. I am still a real newbie when it comes to pharmacuticals. The endrocrinologist says all the health insurance will pay for is cream, but from what everyone else says, that is not worth the trouble. I have no problem with shots, but I have to admit it makes me nervous to try things based on what I research on my own. What does seem to be consistent is that everyone seems to agree that TRT in the form of a shot or 2 a week will only be a good thing. I have been trying to sort through the stickies, but I feel like I am getting lost. I guess I shout be in the TRT forum. Can someone tell me a good sticky to start with? Or another reliable source where I can learn more about TRT, other than cream? Thanks.

[quote]FrankZane wrote:

The idea of feeling and gaining like I did when I was in my 20s really appeals to me. I am still a real newbie when it comes to pharmacuticals.[/quote]

I would suggest sticking with the cream and your endo until your bloodwork suggests otherwise. If you just want to feel young then TRT will probably be all that you need. The cream tends to work better IF your body absorbs it properly. That tends to be a big if. Shots never fail which is why they are recommended so much. Start reading the stickies in the TRT forum, and don’t be suprised if things aren’t magically awesome in the first month or so. It will take some time to get yourself sorted and healthy again.

[quote]SwD wrote:
Ah OK fatboy. You win the prize, whatever it is.
[/quote]

Man I’ve missed the witty and astute repartee of this site since I’ve been gone. It’s good to see that a well balanced argument still holds sway.

I can give a bit of a comment. My doctor prescribed the normal 200mg every two weeks, but he is a family friend and gave me a bit moe advice one evening. I am now injecting 100mg of test cyp once a week and feel great. We spoke about me ramping up to 200mg a week for a 8 week mini cycle, and he told me to do it by feeling. I haven’t tried it, but I think the first of Sept. I will. At 100mg a week, my PL numbers are very good, I have gained about 20 in 8 weeks on my box squat. Just my expirence.

[quote]Booban wrote:
I can give a bit of a comment. My doctor prescribed the normal 200mg every two weeks, but he is a family friend and gave me a bit moe advice one evening. I am now injecting 100mg of test cyp once a week and feel great. We spoke about me ramping up to 200mg a week for a 8 week mini cycle, and he told me to do it by feeling. I haven’t tried it, but I think the first of Sept. I will. At 100mg a week, my PL numbers are very good, I have gained about 20 in 8 weeks on my box squat. Just my expirence.[/quote]
Thanks Booban,
Are you also taking an anti-estrogen or hgc? Or just the testosterone?

You want to make sure you take anastrolze as well and get additional blood work done after a 3-4 weeks. Look in TRT forums, just getting test shots is not the complete answer. You want to watch your estrogen levels, the TRT forums will provide you with lots of info. I have done well on 1 x a week shots, although wish I could get multiple shots a week, but my TRT clinic will not do that.Do your research on TRT forum use the search feature before asking questions because info is often repeated. Be your own advocate with your DR. often they are less educated about TRT than posters on TRT site. good luck

[quote]ironwill68 wrote:
You want to make sure you take anastrolze as well and get additional blood work done after a 3-4 weeks. Look in TRT forums, just getting test shots is not the complete answer. You want to watch your estrogen levels, the TRT forums will provide you with lots of info. I have done well on 1 x a week shots, although wish I could get multiple shots a week, but my TRT clinic will not do that.Do your research on TRT forum use the search feature before asking questions because info is often repeated. Be your own advocate with your DR. often they are less educated about TRT than posters on TRT site. good luck[/quote]

Thanks Ironwill,
I have learned a ton since starting this post. I have been reading the stickies and as much of the forums as I can. I must say it is all a bit overwhelming. I guess I should have paid more attention in chemistry class. If I were to post now I think I would have posted in TRT instead of steroids. I think I have a tentative plan, but I don’t think I can afford bloodwork as frequently as I’d like. It would be so much easier if the medical world were as forward thinking as the members here. I guess sometimes my “morality” holds me back. The doctor says my testosterone level is “fine” but I know from here and how I feel that it is not. The HRT clinica are better, but not covered by my insurance. Makes me feel like I am sneaking around. I guess I would just feel more at ease if my doctor and insurance company would help me out. Okay, I’ll step down now. :slight_smile:

I am at the older end of the spectrum, just had my 58th B-day, have been training since I was a teenager and seriously since early 20’s. Been using compounds for 30 years and currently still cycle and on TRT when not. I have also run Pharm grade Gh for the last three years. I currently train at least 4 days a week and 5-6 days when I cycle. I can’t tell you what my life would have been like without compounds, but I can tell that with them and the Gh I look in my 40’s and most days feel it. I cycle generally once a year sometimes twice and Trt dosage flucuates from 100 to 200mg a week. I have regular blood work done and take 1 asprin a day for Hemocrit. You would most likely be satisfied with Test only at you age and especially just starting out. The older one gets the more likely get side efects. I wont even look at Tren anymore. I also use Nolva or Adex to keep estrogen in line and run some Hcg at low dose(250 iu) but not at a specific time line.

does it matter which test used?