T Nation

Gear for Old Men


#1

Hi Guys,
I'm in an unusual situation that I am hoping someone here is able to steer me in the right direction. I have been lifting all my life, but have never touched gear. I was always pretty big naturally and have never competed. I don't want to compete now, but I'd like to get back the gains I got when I was 20. I went to the endocrinologist, who prescribed a topical cream. The cream brought my levels up some, but still no where near what I was looking for. The cream she was giving me was a 5% solution, which was the highest she would give me. I did some research and found there is a 20% solution. Doing some more research I found that the 20% will do a lot for my libido, but not much else.

Now, I have no expectations of competing, but I just want to look physically like I did 30 years ago. I know how to work out and how to diet and supplement. It looks like the next steps would include injections every few day, along with some oral supplementation and and anti-estrogen agent. This sounds find as I have no objections to any of this. My question comes to the period after the cycle, which I believe should be 3 or 4 months. I have read about post cycle therapy which includes things like HGH. All of which is fine. Hopefully some of you are still with me because here comes the question. Would the PCT be necessary for me if I will most likely never produce much test anyway since I am in my mid 50s? I don't plan to have anymore children as I am in the grand parenting stage of life now. Other side effects like balding and acne are not concerns to me. If I keep my dosages relatively low, like about 1/2 the competitors take, can I just keep cycling indefinitely without doing permanent damage to my body?

By the way, this is not really my first post, just my first post with this name. If anyone with more knowledge and or experience in this area would lead me in the right direction I would very much appreciate it. Thanks guys. I appreciate the knowledge and experience I see here.


#2

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#3

Bushio,
Would his HPTA be compromised from taking the test? Or just because of his age or both?


#4

OMG Frank Zane is that rly you?! (:P)


#5

Thanks Bushio,
If I am injecting a low dosage (probably 1/2 a competitors dosage) should I start with an anti-estrogen? Or just wait until I do my first bloodwork to see where I am at?


#6

Let's just say we are in the same age bracket. :slight_smile:


#7

If you want to "keep cycling". use the "Blast and Cruise" approach. Blast is a "normal cycle", cruise is the in between cycle parts, which for the saner individuals is TRT levels (100-200mg/week total of Test and/or Masteron).

In the TRT threads, you see time and time again that using an anti-estrogen like Arimidex is good. So if it's good for "old men" using 100mg a week, it goes to say it's a must for higher AAS levels.

IMO you've got to watch for your prostate and heart more than a young dude. AAS are not the killer the media made them out to be, but I don't think they are benign drugs either.


#8

Thanks SwD,
So, if I am understanding you correctly, an old guy like me could stay on a 100mg/wk cycle most of the year and then occasional put in a "blast" cycle where higher dosages are used, all the time using an anti-estrogen?
If this is the case, would I do a PCT after the "blast" portion? Or is this where I would go on the "cruise" part?
I appreciate your concern about my prostrate and heart. I do intend to monitor those type of things.


#9

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#10

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#11

I think this depends on the body's set point for T->E2 aromatization. 100 mg/week puts most men on the upper edges of the range. If they are not meant to be there (which by definition 75% of men will not be) then there is a high risk of E2 dump, IME from the TRT forum. Though its possible we are just special cases (since guys who are doing fine with their TRT regimine don't usually go looking for answers online).

Good news is that if you are on TRT and have a doctor in tune with TRT, you can gauge your E2 levels via bloodwork and match with symptoms (or lack thereof). I would do this prior to blasting.

No PCT required. May want to step down the dosage over a couple weeks, but that is mostly just to avoid a sharp drop. But otherwise you will go from your blasting dose down to your cruising dose--no need for a SERM.


#12

Thanks Guys,
I appreciate the help. So, Bushio, when you say my HPTA will "take a big hit" do you mean for a short term from which I would eventually recovery back to pre exo test days, or would I be forever compromised to a lower level? By the way, I am really glad I am finding all this out before I make a decision. Oh, and VT, I do have a doctor in my corner who would help me monitor blood work. I'm trying real hard not to be stupid about this.
Thanks again


#13

Yes. BBB gave out good supplement advice to prevent some of the pitfalls. BTW after a blast, you can wait 10-14 days before going on TRT levels as the higher levels of AAS taper off. Personally, I would still go completely off once in a while - doing so after a cruise not after a blast - just to be natural and clean things up.

IMO this will give you quite the quality of life that few will experience. Higher recuperation, better sleep, and better SEX. Isn't that what we all want?


#14

Would you recommend the same thing to a patient that is on lifelong HRT without blasting? If not, why would you recommend someone that chooses to blast to force themselves to feel like absolute shit for a few weeks? They are on HRT for a reason--their bodies do not produce adequate T....this advice is terrible...


#15

Sounds like I inadvertantly opened a can of worms here. But it is good to get many viewpoints. VT, do you also recommend the "blast and cruise" concept? If so, do you just not go off at all?


#16

If I ever decide to blast and cruise, I would certainly not go off. There is absolutely no reason to. You will risk losing your gains (moreso than a normal person because you are already hypogonadal so you certainly wouldn't recover) and you would feel like shit for the time you are off (or at least while the test clears your body entirely, given the half lives), not to mention the medical literature demonstrating that having low T levels is generally unhealthy and wreaks havoc on all of your bodily systems.

SwD was giving advice out of his ass with no real critical thinking as to why. Maybe it just sounded good in his head.


#17

So VT,
Does it follow then, that the HGH protocal after a cycle is pretty much a waste for an old hypogondal guy like me?


#18

Most people don't use HGH as part of their PCT. I've seen some people recently say they are taking GHRP with PCT to maintain better, but I doubt this is what you are asking.

It seems like you could benefit from reading up more on PCT (there is a stickey for that) and will help you ask better questions for planning your way ahead.


#19

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#20

Yeah it only "sounded good in my head". Whatever man. If you feel being on drugs all the time is more healthy than more power to you. Everyone justifies their habit any way they can...

If OP has natural low test, he still produces some. And it's not ALL about the HPTA, recovery, and "keeping gains". Having elevated test when older can mean a lot of secondary effects, not ALL of which are beneficial. It affects a whole chain of other hormones. That why I believe that going off for a month or two once in a while is a good idea. Sure, you won't feel as good as while you're "on", but that's not a reason to stay forever on cycle in MY opinion. You don't have to agree with it, and feel it's best to be using exogenous hormones all the time but I don't.

Some drugs you can't really go off, like patients using thyroid medications. I feel, though, that test levels can come back, even at the low level of old guys, and overall it might be a good idea for health reasons to be completely off any exogenous hormones for a few months out of a year. Wow, did that sounded demented or what! Forget what I wrote, be on drugs all the time!